Engine-Hours Survey

[Don Moyer]

Forum member Jonathan Welch recently forwarded an interesting email wherein he mentioned that he had accumulated 4,700 hours on his engine since it was rebuilt by Moyer Marine in 1998. We know from an earlier MMI survey that few owners run their engines as much as 100 hours a year. That knowledge makes Jonathan's experience truly amazing, and perhaps a record among our A4 community.

When this survey is done, we'd like to hear from the senior citizens (in engine-hours, not people years) regarding what they know about the history of their engines.

Don

[dvdcnl]

Hey Don,

How about under 500 hours on a 65 Columbia? It's a 'SAILBOAT' :)

[Don Moyer]

Dvdcnl,

Thanks for the check-in. Your engine is definitely broken in by this time. I'll check with our Webmaster to see if we can't add a 500 hour category below the 1000 hour range. I don't think it was our intent to establish an "Over 1000 Hour Club".

Don

[JimH]

My A4 is a 1962 vintage. I take care of it and it takes care of me. Thankfully, there has never been an running hours guage on my motor.
At this point I don't need to know.

[castinemarine]

I currently have 1.2 on my MMI rebuilt A4 Delivered in March 2008 and Installed This June 2008. Not sure how many she had pre- MMI rebuild but she started on the second try and has run well ever since. There is a pronounce what I assume to be a valve tick that I am hoping will go away as I break the engine in gently. Does anyone have any insight to offer about this high end (up in the engine head) ticking? My old engine sounded the same/similar but did not sound as pronounced. Will more MMO squirted into the cylinders help? Also the engine seems to smoke (blue)more and I am hoping this will subside as I go through the MMI break-in process. I look forward to any and all replies!

Chris

[keithems]

mine does the same things -- ticks and smoke -- and runs well

so i've concluded:

tick is from the mechanical fuel pump cam; thus normal

most smoke is from adding mmo to the fuel, especially if i add more than the recommended amount

what do others think?

[daveinrenton]

That little tick is music to my ears! I always thought it was valve tappets. I understand that too loose is better than too tight on the valve adjustments so I let them be. I have no smoke issues.. She runs like a champ and never burns a drop of oil between 50 hour changes (about once a year). There's a small oil leak in the back right of the engine but never enough to show on the stick. Never been rebuilt. Just fussed over by me after not being fussed over by the prior owners. Dave

[Doug_E29]

2040 hours.

I bought an Ericson 29 2 weeks ago with an Atomic 4 that had a partial rebuild at 1995 hours. The engine had not been started in 3 years. Cleaned out the entire fuel system (filters lines, etc). removed and cleaned out the carb. A little MMO in each cylinder (per Don's instructions), new coil, points, condenser. Started right up, good oil pressure, correct temperature. The number 3 cylinder had no compression (stuck valve) but it started working after about 15 minutes of running. It was so nice to bring it back to life.

I plan on getting better goodies for the engine from Don (high output alternator etc.) and using the parts I bought to get it running for the emergency kit.

After babying a Volvo MD6A with a Combi transmission (don't ask) in my last boat for a few years ($188.00 for fuel hoses, 3 month wait - ouch!) it is a breath of fresh air to have something simple.

Thank you to Don for the GREAT advice on this site!

[dvd]

my 1974 cal 3-30 has a tick sound in the engine somewhere. It doesn't sound deep like a rod but it has a distinct tick sound that I've just assumed is normal. After all for all I know the engine is original and has never been rebuilt, although it appears to be in good repair. I bought it in 2/08 and the prior owner was dead (not on the boat) so I didnt get a chance to inquire as to any eccentricities.

dvd

[Rick_Powers]

Only 70 hours on a newly rebuilt engine.

Didn't see a voting category for that...

-Rick Powers, Palo Alto, CA

[Don Moyer]

DVD,

I'm attaching a tech note we prepared some time ago on ticking sounds which may help.

Don

[sailbristol]

2105 hrs on 71 bristol 30 never rebuilt still runs well

[charles@pricefarrington.c]

Mine has a tick, on recent rebuild, its not the fuel pump. I have smoke but since I now have about 200 hours on the rebuild, its less and burns about a quarter quart at about 25 hours, prior to the break in, I burned about a quart every 2 hours!

[vabiker23518]

I've had my boat for two years now, and the engine hour meter reads 200. The PO had the A4 overhauled by Moyer Marine about 5 years ago if memory serves. Sadly, we only put 15 hours on this past season. Oil was pretty clean when changed this fall.

[67c&ccorv]

Mine is a 1967 C&C Corvette (Hull #29) with the original A4 - 5 digit serial number, oil fill at the rear & mechanical fuel pump.

No idea of the number of hours on her but the previous 2 owners sailed the old girl a lot, so I would expect she has quite a few.

Motor runs quietly and seems to have good power with little oil consumption and fumes (still have the original crank breather system) and starts easily.
Compression is fine on all cylinders, sometimes she will "tick-tick-tick" until warmed up but when you have owned and rebuilt a 1972 Norton 750 & 1975 Norton 850 Commando motorcyle the "ticking" noise seems a non-issue.

That clatter of mechanical valve lifters...is "music" to my ears!

Cheers!:)

[jeffgerritsen]

My Atomic 4 has 640 on the rebuild (Pearson 35). However I have no idea of the total number of hours on the engine. But the engine runs well (slight tick sound that goes away above 1200 rpms) and since installing the PCV valve, removing the crank case vapors from the cabin, I'm really enjoying the sailboat.

[julian hood]

Don,

I was told that my engine had about 300 hours on it when I bought it in 2001.
I have probably put 150 hours on it since instaling it in my Oday 27. I have had to do a valve job on it, but nothing else major. It is running better than ever this summer. Hope I don't Jinx it.

[Dana Mace]

From talking extensively with the po and the time I figure I put on the engine per yr, am guessing that my 1976 C&C 27 has under 500 Hrs on it

Dana
Marblehead Ma

[jeffgerritsen]

Greetings folks,
along the lines of this engine hours survey, how many hours (total time between overhaul - TTBO) can I expect out of A4 with periodic maintenance performed. For example, oil changes in the range of 40 - 70 hours, regular tune ups, and using MMO as a fuel additive.

Note the engine has the indigo electronic ignition, PCV addition, and I'm installing the external oil filter within the next two weeks.

I've been told by others that diesels can last up to 8,000 hours (if well maintained), while gasoline engines, if well maintained, are in the 1,500 - 3,000 hour range. Is this true?

I realize the standard caveat applies - your mileage may vary (YMMV), so I asking for what may be reasonably expected.

Thanks,
Jeff

[jhwelch]

I sent my engine in for a rebuild when it got to 6,000 hours, and only then because
the oil seal had failed and I figured if I was going to have the engine out of
the boat with that many hours a rebuild would be a good idea.

-jonathan

[Mark S]

Jeff,

I've been told by others that diesels can last up to 8,000 hours (if well maintained), while gasoline engines, if well maintained, are in the 1,500 - 3,000 hour range. Is this true?

That's nonsense. You heard that from a diesel guy, right? A gasoline engine which is operated regularly and whose oil is regularly changed and which is not subjected to chronic overheating should last as long as a diesel engine. Maybe I'm missing something somewhere, but I don't think ordinary wear and tear issues are significantly different between diesel and gasoline engines.

Mark

[tony201]

After the overhaul I did on my late model A4 I could hear a ticking sound after installing the engine. I would bet it was a loose tappet, Thought I made a bad valve adjustment on the bench . So off came the carb and manifold and I did a recheck,everything was nuts on . New Valve springs , can't be that so that leaves the accessory drive gear. Don't think it's a big deal,Not gonna worry about ,

Tony

[roadnsky]

Tony-
Read this thread regarding "normal" ticking noises.
(http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1049&highlight=valve+noise)
It might put your mind at ease...;)

[Rick_Powers]

I installed a rebuilt engine last year.

I put on about 150 hours per year.

I change oil every 50 hours.

Q: How long should this engine run before needing a rebuild?

[roadnsky]

Q: How long should this engine run before needing a rebuild?

Rick-
Based on good maintenance and care, it's very likely that Don's Grandkids will be doing the next rebuild.
Hopefully for your Grandkids!;)

[tony201]

Rick I would think some where around 5000 hr. to ?

Tony

[jhwelch]

The engine I took out of my boat last year, due to the rear seal having let go,
had just about 6,000 hours on it.

Perhaps Don can chime in on what he saw when he opened it up.

-jonathan

[rigspelt]

due to the rear seal having let go
jonathon, does that mean catastrophic failure, or slow leak slowly getting worse?

[jhwelch]

It was a slow leak that progressively got worse to the point where oil would
drip out overnight and I'd have to add a little bit every morning I was
motoring north up the ICW.

When the motor was opened up Don told me they found some interesting
worm-like erosion patterns, I think it was on the crankshaft, but he'll
have to clarify the exact location.

[JimG]

I was told my engine had 250 hours on it when I bought it five years ago. Since then, I've but less than 50 hours on it since the sails go up as soon as I'm away from the slip.

[sastanley]

I selected - "no idea..." - but I also just bought an hour meter to put on the engine..I wonder if I could plug it into a 12v source to run it up to 800-900 hours which is what I suspect the motor has on it so it is more accurate when I install it? :D

Really, I bought the meter so I can track my own usage more carefully since taking ownership & fuel consumption. My wife and I were trying to count the hours this year based on memory (I am very bad about filling out the log book), and the best I can come up with from an estimate of consuming 29-30 gallons of fuel is about 35-40 hours, assuming .75 gal/hour.

Next season, I hope to use the boat more, and have more accurate numbers!;)

[Jesse Delanoy]

I never had an engine hours meter, but I installed one when I repowered with a MM rebuilt engine three seasons ago. I find it highly useful to monitor fuel consumption (like Shawn, I see about 0.75 gal. per hour, unless I'm running right up around 2000 rpm, then it's just under a gallon), and to keep me on track for regular oil changes. I log the hours in a notebook at every gas fill-up and every oil change. In three seasons of use, I've logged about 300 hours, although last year got cut short due to some hull and keel damage, and we lost a lot of sailing time this year due to rainy weather. I just wish I'd installed the thing in a more convenient location - as it is on the front of the engine compartment, about a foot off the floor in the main cabin - and my eyesight isn't getting any better with age!

[sastanley]

Jesse - good thinking..I was trying to decide where to mount it..at least I know where NOT to. :p (if I recall correctly, you have a C-30 also)

Anytime we drill holes in the boat it seems so permanent! I've already moved my Racor filter!

I was assuming for hookup, this is just another device that connects to the coil...assuming the coil is energized, the meter is running, and the engine is running.:confused:

[Jesse Delanoy]

yup, 1977 Cat 30, no. 664.


yes, the meter has three wires:

hot - should be connected to constant 12 volt power - it's ok if this wire is cold when boat power is off - it just provides power when needed. I made sure to double check that the meter retains engine hours in memory, and does not go back to zero if all power is shut off, like radio station memories do (another story for a later time!).

sending - should be connected to a 12 volt power source hot only when the engine is running - this is the coil connection. I think it's hot even when the engine is off, if the ignition circuit is on - but since this is never the case on my boat except for very brief periods, it's not an issue.

ground - obvious.

Best place I can think of to mount it in our boats would be at the end of the galley counter, as high up as possible, opposite from the chart table, making sure to keep the wiring clear of the drawers in the galley console. If there's enough clearance between the back of the gauge and the sides of the drawers - not sure.

[sastanley]

Jesse, thanks..I currently have my little automotive tach there, and I ran the wires external to the cabinet, down behind the cushion, in case I wanted to move it.
I ordered an analog hour meter so I won't have the memory problem, and I would expect my coil/ignition circuit to work the same way..powered only very briefly during start up procedures with the engine not running. Should be negligible.

I seem to recall there is probably enough room inside the cabinet for wires, but maybe not a 2" deep cutout for my analog meter. When I rebuilt my cabinet, I extended the counter top about 3" since you can't really effectively utilize that little area anyway...I have a little extra overhang for more instruments now :p

[mike boyd sr]

hey don would this be hrs since original install or recient rebuild thanx

[Administrator]

Hi, Mike, and welcome to the forum.

I'm guessing that most folks would interpret the question as asking about the hours since the original install.

Bill

[Maurice]

The engine in my C&C 30 has 1378 hrs on it. Runs like a dream although it sat unattended high and dry in the boat for a couple of years. Hauled it apart, cleaned it up... the major problem was the exhaust manifold froze and cracked.

I also have a full drop in "freshwater" great lakes engine that a friend sold me last year. He went for a diesel just because...well, he is a marine engineer so diesel is his thing. That one has less hrs on it and looks better cosmetically than mine. It and ran perfect the day I helped him pull it.

So, there's 2 with less than 2000 on them.

[Dave Neptune]

I don't have an hour meter so all I can do is guess. As some of you may no when I bought the Volador 26 years ago the engine was rusted/frozen tight. At that time it had set in the slip fro 5 years as the 3 guys I bought her from only used the boat as a plase to bring their girlfriends so their wives wouldn't find out:o. Well they found out :eek: just as I was walking by to hand a check to a guy further down the marina for a differant E-35 and I wound up making them an offer "as is" with an engine that wouldn't start or turn. It took me 5 days to get her running and I have used the boat a lot since. The original owner used the boat for 6 years cruising and racing and I have no idea how much he used it other than it sat due to his heart problems for a couple of years until those 3 bought her.
I'm guessing she has about 2000/2500 hours on it in forty years of ticking. That number may be a little high so I'm putting in 2000 hours which may be a bit high.
I will attest to the durability of the A-4. A friend of mine who worked on them as a marine mechanic said he saw many of them with over 4000 hours and still in good shape if they were properly maintained. He also said many were trashed due to neglect with only a few hundred hours on them.

I am planning on doing a compression check this weekend to satisfy my and others curiosity. I will use my screw in Snap-on guage.

Dave Neptune:eek:
Volador's A-4 about 2000 hours and a valve job 26 years ago.

[ILikeRust]

I had to select "no idea" but I do bet it's a bunch.

The boat is a 1968 model; the engine is 1983. The engine hours meter is non-functional and apparently has been for some time.

[charles@pricefarrington.c]

I have 395 on a local rebuild. When purchased in 08 she had less than 40 on rebuild, not even broken in yet...We don't let the wind gods dictate when we go....

[Maurice]

Installed a new hour meter this spring. Old one had 1378 prior to changing it; 47 hours currently on the new meter this year. Chartplotter records my mileage and it is 709 nm currently for this year. That is more engine time than I normally rack up. A few times I had to motor home in driving hail, no wind on one cruise...small things like that add to the hours. To give you an idea, due to weather, I am about 600 nm short of last years mileage for this time. The hours on the engine are about the same.

Currently coming up for her 3rd oil change this year. I change it at the beginning of season, about mid June, then around mid August. Boat laid up due to steering failure a few days ago, so while I wait for parts, some preventive maintenance.

[joe_db]

Update:
My "new engine", installed in May, was assumed to be relatively low time when installed based on condition when torn down.

I now have 38 hours since installing it and so far the oil is clear and NONE has leaked out or burned :D
This is confusing me - the old engine did both with enthusiasm :eek:

[Bingy]

I currently own a Ranger 30 and have had very little problems with my A4.
I have a maintenance question. The rervoir for the transmission has a shallow well for lubricant. Is there a proper level to look for or do we assume as long as engine oil level is good then all is good.
New member but have owned two boats with A4. Previous was C&C 35 Mk 1

[ILikeRust]

The rervoir for the transmission has a shallow well for lubricant. Is there a proper level to look for or do we assume as long as engine oil level is good then all is good.

Yes. The reversing gear and crankcase share a common oil pan. There is no separate reservoir for the reversing gear.

[Bingy]

Thanks
I have to travel up and down the Detroit River which sometimes require 3 to 4 hours running at continuous speed between 5.5 and 6 knots due to adverse currents and wind.
The motor seems to be working a little harder after 3 or so hours.
I am worried about possible thrust bearing or other bearing becoming hot .
Motor has fresh oil,cooling system flushed ,stuffing box very slow drip.
Any comments appreciated

[sastanley]

bingy, you may want to start a new thread in the appropriate section of the forum..it will likely get more attention. :)

[mpohrille]

I have a 1976 FWC A4 with reduction drive. 2100 hours, compression 110 all cylinders and oil lab results show no problems. I change oil @ 25 hours . Amazing engine:)

[hanleyclifford]

I have a 1976 FWC A4 with reduction drive. 2100 hours, compression 110 all cylinders and oil lab results show no problems. I change oil @ 25 hours . Amazing engine:) May we see some pictures?