No Spark

[JackConnick]

Hi group;

I've been busy this winter doing a bit of an overhaul on my AT4 in my Islander 28. Replaced the head, studs, put in studs on the water jacket plate, r/r the carb, etc. Still need to replace the rear seal. The engine was running fine prior to my work, except for a cracked water jacket on the head.

I replaced the coil as part of the process, even thought the old one was working fine. I have an Ignitor magnetic ignition and consider it probably the best engine upgrade I've put in.

After replacing the wiring, I couldn't get it to start. Checked the plugs and have lots of fuel. Found that I had inadvertently put the main ignition + source on the neg terminal of the coil. Switched it and still wouldn't start. Checked the spark and there wasn't any at the plug, nor from the coil to ground or distributor cap. Meter shows +12.5 volts from center of coil and _either_ terminal. Traced all wiring against Don's excellent diagram and all seems right. Tried hotwiring from starter to + of coil without change. Went back to old coil (which was working fine), without change.

Checked inside of distributor - cap and rotor are newish, maybe 12 hrs old and all _looks_ ok. Dist wire and spark plugs are fairly new and I checked continuity of coil wire (as well as voltage) as ok.

Reading through the books points to a bad coil, but I know that isn't the problem, as I tried the other. Looking back through some old posts it looks like I may of fried the Ignitor unit when I reversed the polarity...?? Otherwise I am completely at a loss for an answer.

Here's a photo of wiring, note that I have the alternator off for testing purposes, engine runs fine without it at the dock. Small wire on spark plug wire is an induction type tach.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2268/2273741144_f1f35f8105.jpg

Jack

[swokrams]

Check your points. If you want to, disconnect the ground wire on the coil, turn the ingition on (for +12) and flick a grounded wire off and on the negative side of the coil. You should get spark voltages.

Steve

[jhwelch]

I once got the + and - reversed on my Ignitor and that's enough to
burn it out. I think you'll find you need to get another one. :(

-jonathan

[JackConnick]

Check your points. If you want to, disconnect the ground wire on the coil, turn the ingition on (for +12) and flick a grounded wire off and on the negative side of the coil. You should get spark voltages.
Steve

There are no points, magnetic ignition system.
Jack

[JackConnick]

I once got the + and - reversed on my Ignitor and that's enough to
burn it out. I think you'll find you need to get another one. :(

-jonathan

Yeah, that's what it's adding up to. I think it's shorting out, as I'm getting 12v+ off both pos and neg terminals of the coil with it hooked up.

Damit. Always label wires, always label wires, always label wires.....

Jack

[swokrams]

Doesn't matter. Disconnect the dristributor gound from the coil and then ground the coil off and on manually with a separate wire. You should get a spark.

[Tony curtis]

Jack,
Commiserations as to the fate of the Ignitor which has probably gone to the great silicone chips heaven. Your excellent photo shows you have learned your lesson on labeling, however it does not clearly illustrate the final destination of leads 1 & 2 to a spark plug. You have labeled the distributor socket 1 on the nearest socket which should lead to spark plug 2 to follow the 1,2,4,3 timing sequence. I like the concept of the heat insulating spacer you have installed to reduce heat transmission from the engine block to the coil.
I am a very slack retiree who has my atomic 4 in pieces in the cellar below the matrimonial bedroom rather than in my 36ft traditional wooden sloop for the last 2 years. Quite frankly I am enjoying the absence of a motor as it is amazing what one can do with with a long deep keeled yacht and a flat stalled mainsail. All right in response to continuous queries from crew, associates, family, and club pedants, I will get my act together and do the dance of no spark, close circuit cooling, and engine deaths etc. real soon !
Looking forward to the resolution and logical explanation of your difficulties.

Regards
Tony Curtis

[JackConnick]

Don confirmed over the phone that reversing the polarity killed the Ignitor.

The spark plug labels are temporary and all needs to be properly labeled, once I get it running and am sure of everything. A label kit may be the cheapest bit of gear I buy!!

Unfortunately the boat is 110 miles north and it will be another week before I can justify the gas to go up and change the Ignitor. Then I have the joyful job of getting the rear seal changed to look forward to as well.

Boy, a backed main sounds better and better!

Jack

[tenders]

Labels on the distributor cap and the plug wires are a hugely useful tool.

My boat partner and I spent days several years ago trying to get our A4 started with the boat on a mooring in the Hudson River. Drained the batteries, got seasick (yes, on the mooring), almost blew up the boat with a backfire following excessive use of ether (note to self and anyone else who will listen: do not use ether with an engine installed in a boat for any reason, it just isn't worth it). Cost me a hurt back schlepping the batteries off the boat to get recharged and then a bundle for a portable generator in case it ever happened again.

Resolution: someone had reinstalled the distributor oddly, probably even before I bought the boat. Had I just replaced the darn plug wires the way they had been before I took them off I'd've been just fine. Engine started instantly after, in desperation, I hooked the wires up 180 degrees out of sync.

[JackConnick]

Gees, I think there ought to be a weekly award for dumb-a**ed mistakes, weird problems and frustration here in the Moyer AT4 community.

I humbly submit myself for this week's award.

To continue the above saga of woe. I drove back up to the boat (I keep it in Blaine, WA, about 120 miles north of my home in Seattle. Gateway to the San Juan islands, etc.). Jump on the boat with a new Ignitor ignition part. Pull of the distributor and install it. Replace the rotor, but didn't put it FIRMLY into the camshaft. Tried to start, but of course the rotor wa free spinning. Scratched my head for 1/2 hours, then found the rotor problem. Ha!

Except that in replacing the cap I managed to get the @#**& red wire stuck under it and shorted out yet another Ignitor. Poof, smoke.

OK, I'm gonna get this beast going one way or another. I pull out the old (like 10 years) distributor plate with points and condenser. Install it. Cannot get it to start. Move wires around on the distributor clockwise one hole, and she starts!! Whoohoo happy dance! Runs great, idles great. Warm it it up, stop it, torque the head bolts. Restart and warm up agian.

Shift into power and it stalls. Restart, apply some gas, shift and she runs, but it has a rythmic power up and down, doesn't change when I adjust timing, etc. Just seems weak and not running well. Shut it down and re-torque bolts again. Pour whiskey and scratch head.

Next morning I put in some new fuel and dryer. Check carb bowl, gas very clean, no problems (the carb was just cleaned). Check compression, and its fine (95-110). Plugs look ok, except #3 has some dirt on it.

Call Don. What a nice guy, have bought stuff from him for years now. I have his original newsletters for 1994! He thinks I have the distributor in wrong. OK, tells me how to make a TDC timing mark, etc. I do so, find that it's 90 off, makes sense, even find an old timing mark. All's good.

Go to start and nada. Nada damn spark. Nada off coil wire, etc. Numerous calls to Don, VU meter tests, try to trace it down, etc. I show juice to coil, from coil, juice continuity at the distributor, good ground everywhere, etc. I even tried another coil and replaced the condenser. I get juice up to the points, can even get a spark from them to the breaker plate, but no spark when I push the points apart, with ignition on, or when I crank. No spark from main coil wire either when I crank while holding the wire to the head (although I did get a spark from neg terminal to head when cranked).

I worked on it for hours yesterday, wore poor Don's ear off and gave up. I have no idea why it would run one time and not the next, again all wires are fine, new coil, new plugs, new condenser, points (they looked ok, and I got continuity). Wires checked for continuity.

I guess my plan is to go back up with yet another Ignitor system and install it. But I'm not sure why I'm still not getting a spark from the coil. Some little thing is not making contact or acting intermittent, I think, but damned if I can find it.

Your humbled mechanic of sorts,
Jack

[adab1402]

take a tip from a mechanic of 35 years ,start at the begining ,primary circuit ,then secondary circuit ,all new ,all adjusted . pts cond ,cap rotor ,or electric ignitor ,check your dist for return springs that may be grounding out , follow your wires check your grounds ,leave no stone unturned ,you will be a bigger man because of this approach . its a humbling experience ,but much faster in the long run . fair winds ken

[pad]

I had the identical problem with the same test results. Finally, I took out the new points, cleaned the contacts with alcohol- again, reinstalled and voila, the engine fired up. This year, I'm putting in a Pertronic. I've had it with points.