Now I'm just royally ticked off!

[Baltimore Sailor]

As I've posted before, my shift lever just misses getting the tranny into the forward detent. When I push it all the way forward there's no click, but there is coming back out (can't quite figure that one out, but I suspect it's got to do with play in the system).

I've already taken up all the adjustment on the shifter side of the cable; today I was trying to get the last half-inch out of the turnbuckle on the engine end of the cable. Today was a classic hot, humid Baltimore afternoon, and I spent 1 1/2 hours stretched across the engine compartment through the quarter berth access panels, trying to get a purchase on that turnbuckle. But no matter how hard I clamped the vise grips on the cable, I couldn't get the turnbuckle to tighten up -- the things just kept slipping. After the fourth try I just gave up.

I just can not believe that with every bit of takeup I can get out of the adjustment I'm still not able to make that last half-inch to get to the forward detent. None of the clamps are slipping, that much I can tell. Since I bought the boat last April it's never clicked into forward -- only a chance reading of a post here alerted me to the fact that it should.

So now I'm down to makeshift solutions, because I don't want to take the carburetor and fuel pump off the engine AGAIN, just to get this cable adjusted. There must be a way to do it from the easily-accessible shifter side of the engine.

Here's a picture of my shifter. For reference, the bow is to the right. Pushing the shift lever forward moves the end of the lever towards the stern, pulling on the cable and moving the engine lever forward:

http://photos.hilltopper.net/dscn1553_sm.jpg


I figure I've got three possibilities:

Loosen the bracket on the lower right-hand corner of the shifter; disconnect the turnbuckle from the shift lever on the upper left-hand corner; slide the cable through the bracket to move the cable a little further away from the lever; tighten down the bracket; and then move the lever enough to reconnect the turnbuckle. By moving the end of the cable a little farther away, the lever should pull it far enough to engage the detent on the other end.

The second possibility is to get a piece of metal and drill 5/16" holes along its length, then bolt it to the existing lever and use one of the further-down holes to attach the turnbuckle. Extending the lever should give enough more pull to engage the detent.

My final idea is to cut more threads along the bar where the turnbuckle is screwed on so that I can just screw it farther down and away from the lever. The biggest problem there is that the bar looks like stainless steel, and I have no idea how difficult it would be to cut more threads into it.

That's it for my ideas. Again, I just can't believe there's not enough adjustment in the system to make it work as it should without my having to fudge something up.

Anybody have any other (better) ideas? Thanks!

[sunnnnseeeker]

Is the upper shift cable (red) going to the shift on the transmission?

Was the engine out of the boat? If so it is possible it was not re-installed in the same position (aft) that it originally was for the shift cables set-up that is there.

First thing I would do is disconnect the cable from the transmission shift lever and manually move the shift lever forward has far as you can so you can see how much more you need to get out of the cables.

With the 2 cables attached to their level arms the way they are at 45 degrees apart the upper cable (red) will only move 1/2 as far in the forward (bow) direction has the lower cable. So if you have another 1/2 inch to go on the transmission you'll need to get another inch out of the lower cable - and then the red cable will be MAXed out as far as it will go forward. It would be better if those 2 cables were connected on the same lever arm or at least lined up closer together. It looks like there is some adjustment on the upper cable. Is there?

I agree with you, there should be enough adjustment to make it work without drilling more holes or cutting more threads. I think your first option is the easiest and may be the right answer. I believe there are 2 grooves on the shift cable for the clamp to set in. If you have more adjustment by moving the cable, try that.

Other possibilities: is there more adjustment on the other end of the shift cable? There are a couple holes on the transmission shift lever. Maybe using another location on the shift level will more it forward more – depending on the angle the engine is mounted.

[tenders]

I gather you're trying to make the cable essentially shorter. (Forgive me if I'm off on this, my V-drive engine is mounted 180 degrees off of a typical installation and I can't remember how the shifter on the engine works relative to the cockpit shifter on my installation OR on a "typical" one.)

On the engine side of the cable: how about getting a turnbuckle with shorter shoulders?

I'm not sure I understand why you're having so much difficulty making the adjustment on the engine side of the cable. On my installation there's quite a bit of thread adjustment on cable that screws quite easily into the engine-side turnbuckle (or "fork"). I guess you're having trouble using that adjustment? On my boat if you can get the clevis pin out of that turnbuckle, you can use the shifter to move the end of the cable around a little bit. Would that help to get it someplace where you can have better access to it?

What would happen if you placed the fork on the other hole on the engine shifter? You might have enough throw to get the shifter into gear, at the expense of a bit of leverage.

[jayw]

What's labeled as "cable clamp" in your photo probably cannot be adjusted to move cable further away, I thnk that the u-shaped clamp fits into a groove on the cable housing.
But you may be able to loosen the split lever where it clamps onto the shifter shaft (upper left corner of the photo) and rotate this lever clockwise before retightening and get a little more pull on the cable.

[High Hopes]

Balt,

You said,

"When I push it all the way forward there's no click, but there is coming back out..."

Before getting too carried away, I'd make sure there IS an indent in going into forward.

Disconnet the cable end at the conrol side where you have access. Leave it connected to the U clamp that holds the sheath in place. Then connect the loose cable end to something that will afford a good grip. A strip of metal with a hole in it comes to mind. This should provide more throw at the engines side.

Work the cable manually and see what happens. This should be possible as I can, with a little effort, work the lever on the engine gear box with my hand.

Good luck.

Steve

[msauntry]

First off Balt, get yourself a big fan for working down below.

Second, can you get to the transmission cover easily? Pop off the four bolts so you can see the arms curling around the detent, just so you can see what is actually happening on the inside. You might not even have a problem.

Third, can you drill a hole lower on the transmission's lever? This will accomplish the same thing as lengthening the shifter end.

Fourth, get a big fan. :)

[SEMIJim]

As I've posted before, my shift lever just misses getting the tranny into the forward detent. When I push it all the way forward there's no click, but there is coming back out (can't quite figure that one out, but I suspect it's got to do with play in the system).[Note: Emphasis added]

I almost missed that bit I emphasized. I noticed, when I was checking the forward adjustment on our reversing gear last weekend, that coming out of forward was much more difficult than going into forward. I suspect you really are hitting the detent, otherwise there'd be no "click" coming out.

I'm sorry, I don't have time at the moment to review your other two threads (have to get going addressing our own reversing gear issues :p), so if I'm repeating something already suggested, tried or discarded as known not to be the problem, please forgive me.

Get the top off the reversing gear. Examine its behaviour (where and how far things move) with your shift cable disconnected. Then connect your shift cable and do the same thing. It could be what you really need to do is adjust that "nut" inside the reversing gear for more clutch pressure--which will also increase the detent pressure.

I highly recommend Moyer's DVD on the reversiing gear. I spent years and years wrenching on engines and other things mechanical, in years past, and still I found it a great help. Worth every penny he charges, IMO.

Hope this helps.

Jim

[timday5]

On my boat the shift lever on the reversing gear housing (not the one in the cockpit) was impacting the intake line into the water pump, preventing it from going into forward detente.

[Baltimore Sailor]

Thanks for all the responses. I should have added a few more bits of information.

I have manually worked the engine lever for the tranny. It very easily pushes into the forward detent and back out again. I ran the engine at 900 rpm tied up to the dock and reached across the engine compartment to put the lever into the forward detent. Then I revved the engine up to full power and everything was fine, there was no slippage out of gear.

Just to emphasize: there is a very clear "click" going both into the forward gear and back out again when I push the lever by hand. When using the shifter it's not quite into the forward click, but somehow I do get the click coming back out. It must be a matter of a half-inch to go.

In the photo in the post above, the lower cable is for the tranny. The other cable is for the throttle, and they move with two different shifters, even though they appear to be mounted together.

I can't do anything with the engine end of the cable. I have only two access panels in the opposite side of the boat, and neither of them are large enough to actually climb though. I can only reach as far as my arms, and I can't get to the turnbuckle over there to do anything but just reach the pin to disconnect it.

I'm pretty much stuck with working on the shifter side of the engine.

I like the idea of getting a turnbuckle with shorter shoulders. The treaded part is 5/16", as are the holes in the shoulder. Surely I can find a turnbuckle of those dimensions with less reach to it, which would make the nut.

I suppose I could always hacksaw a bit of the other end of the turnbuckle off, so that it would be a bit farther away when it bottomed off. I only need another 1/2" or so.

Finally, yes the engine was out of the boat. It was rebuilt by Moyer Marine in 1993, and it may well be that when it was put back in some changes were made.

That's a few more ideas to consider. Thanks for all the input, everybody!

[High Hopes]

Hi Balt,

I'm not sure what types of tools you have, but you could make a small squarish plate out of some scrap plate steel (or whatever), drill holes in it to match three holes in the bracket that holds the cable sheath clamp. The metal plate would extend out towards the engine side. Drill two new holes, then, remount the cable clamp in the new holes.

[jhwelch]

For what it's worth, the rebuilt engine I got back from Moyer a few weeks
ago had a very different position for shifting into forwards then the
motor I took out (and yes, they are both mounted in the same location).
Lucky for me I had plenty of lengths in various turnbuckles, etc. that
I could set my shift lever into the right position.

-jonathan

[Baltimore Sailor]

I like Steve's idea. That actually came to me on my drive into work this morning. I should be able to come up with a piece of scrap steel, or buy something at a hardware store that would fit. I've got a drill and bits, so putting this solution together would be no problem at all.

I'll look around my workbench tonight and see what bits of something might be laying about that I could put to use.

Yankee ingenuity strikes again!

[tenders]

I looked at my engine yesterday afternoon. My shifter bar has two holes in it--high and low.

I remember that when I initially installed my rebuilt engine (this was in California, and in the days before the Internet, and before Don Moyer was THE Don Moyer) I connected the shift cable to the UPPER, better-leveraged, hole on the shifter bar. This was unsatisfactory for, I think, the reasons you are describing.

It belongs in the LOWER hole.

[policecentral]

As stated, the shifter has two holes, upper and lower. If you are in the upper hole, you should try switching to the lower. The length of the radius of the shifter is less, therefore the travel provided by your cable will have more effect. You will have to determine if the somewhat reduced leverage is tolerable. If this helps but your luck is really bad, you may have to adjust the cable length anyway if you have too much when in the lower hole.

JSM
Ranger 30 Northern Light
Savannah, GA

[Jim Booth]

I like Steve's idea. That actually came to me on my drive into work this morning. I should be able to come up with a piece of scrap steel, or buy something at a hardware store that would fit. I've got a drill and bits, so putting this solution together would be no problem at all.

I'll look around my workbench tonight and see what bits of something might be laying about that I could put to use.

Yankee ingenuity strikes again!

Good idea, but I would modify it slightly to just drill new holes through both plates and bolt them together. No hassle with alignment with old holes and you could probably do it without taking it out of the boat.

I did have another thought though. When you push the shift lever fully forward, does the bottom of the U of the turnbuckle interfere with the lever arm that it's pinned to? That was the case on my boat. In fact, the shift cable was bent there due to forcing it too far. You can rotate the arm relative to your shift lever in 60 degree steps because of the hex shaft it clamps to. Rotating the arm counter clockwise looking at the picture would put the neutral position more counterclockwise and allow you to rotate the shift lever farther clockwise, thus pulling more cable out. After you do this you will no doubt have to adjust the tranny, so I'd just do the experiment to see the difference in cable movement first.

Jim

[Baltimore Sailor]

That's an interesting idea. I'll check that when I get to the boat on Wednesday.

Looking at my picture again, down by the "cable clamp", I'm also wondering if that's not another groove for the clamp just where the pinkish wire intersects with the shaft. I'll have to take another look at that as well.

[tenders]

I think the clamp just holds the jacket of the cable -- its position won't affect the length of the cable.

[Baltimore Sailor]

It can't affect the length of the cable, but it can move the endpoint of the cable further away from the lever. Since the cable slides through the inside of the jacket, it can't bunch up inside it. Moving the endpoint further away from the lever increases the distance through which the cable has to move, effectively "shortening" the cable.

At least it should if I'm seeing this right.

[Jim Booth]

Looking at my picture again, down by the "cable clamp", I'm also wondering if that's not another groove for the clamp just where the pinkish wire intersects with the shaft. I'll have to take another look at that as well.

There is a second groove (or crimp) there, but it's smaller than the one for the cable clamp. Is the shift lever fully forward in the picture?

One more thing about the position of the arm. As the arm rotates, the effort changes, maxing out when it's 90 degrees to the cable. Of course that's also where the cable moves the most relative to movement of the shift lever. So when you rotate the arm you will find that the effort to get it in to the detent is more than you're used to but it will also pop in quicker. If 60 degrees is too much you might find out you can't do reverse anymore but I still think you'll be able to adjust that out after you get forward sorted out. Heck, with 60 degree change you might be wishing for a longer cable, :rolleyes: but then you can move the cable clamp to a different set of holes. I keep dreaming of replacing the reversing gear with a hydraulic pump plumbed to a hydraulic motor attached to the prop shaft. Then I could just leave the motor running at a nice speed and control forward, reverse, and speed effortlessly with a hydraulic control lever in the cockpit. Decent used parts would probably be under $500. A new Morse shifter is more than that!

Good luck,
Jim

[High Hopes]

Hey Balt, What did you do to fix the problem? What did you find?

[Baltimore Sailor]

My final solution is over here (http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9002&postcount=7).

I'll have to go take a picture of it so that it's easier to visualize, but I think my description is not too bad.

It's working well so far, with no bad friction anywhere in the setup that I can see.