Oil change kit and engine angle

[Ript75]

Hello Everyone,

The engine bed in my '74 Newport 30 angles the engine fairly steeply. I am not sure of the exact angle my A4 sits, though I have read that the A4 can operate at angles up to 15 degrees. As the angle increases the volume of oil necessary to operate the engine decreases.
My A4s' dipstick reads full with about 3 quarts of oil.

My question...will the oil change pickup tube reach the bottom of the sump where the oil sits due to the angle that the engine sits in my boat? Or do I need to extend or bend the pickup tube further aft in the oil pan. My A4 is the direct drive model.

Regards,

Jon Connors

PS I'm rebuilding the engine, so I'm performing and installing recommended modifications and improvements through out.

[hanleyclifford]

This is a very interesting question. At 15 degrees if you use the straight pick up tube as delivered, you will be changing less oil than if you had a pick up at the oil dipstick. Your concern is warranted and I would try to cobble an extension to what will be the lowest point in your pan at 15 degrees. This will require some planning and careful execution. We would love to see a picture of it when completed.

[jpian0923]

If you have the engine out and on a stand, or blocks, angle it at 15 degrees, then do your oil investigation. Maybe you could vary the angles (10 degrees, 5 degrees, etc... 20 degrees perhaps.) and report back. I'm interested in the results...others would be as well.

[ndutton]

It's interesting that the angle in the oil pan that turns toward the rear of the engine is the same as the maximum specified mounting angle. In fact I would venture an educated guess it's that angle in the pan that partly determines the maximum mounting angle. Because of this even at 15 degrees the oil drain plug target remains at the low point of the pan. The angle on the attached drawing was measured via my CAD program so what appears is accurate.

Jon,
I used to build the Newport 30, installed at least 50 A-4's in them. As I recall the engine beds are definitely angled aft but I don't think anywhere near 15 degrees, more like maybe 10. I'd say don't worry about the angle, follow the marks on the dipstick regardless of volume and expect the Moyer oil change kit to be as effective at 15 degrees as it is at zero degrees.

[hanleyclifford]

Great post, Neil. But it seems from the picture that a slight angle aft on the pickup tube would yield some benefit in picking up more oil.

[ndutton]

Perhaps Hanley but I think the benefit would be insignificant. Remember, the drawing is at a maximum specified mounting angle and I suspect the vast majority of A-4's, Jon's included, sit at a lesser angle.

[edwardc]

I hear a mounting angle poll coming ...

[hanleyclifford]

Then, of course, there is the matter of residual oil in the 2:1 unit, the oil filter, the oil cooler....

[JOHN COOKSON]

I hear a mounting angle poll coming ...

They might follow up. Let's keep it clean. (just kidding)

TRUE GRIT

[hanleyclifford]

This is beginning to grow in my head (..."the idle mind is the devil's workshop"...). Next time I get my engine down I'm going to make a custom pickup tube so as to gather the last possible morsel of oil. Even a fraction of an inch could mean maybe an extra cup of dirty oil.

[Ript75]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the input. Most of the guys I work with tell me I think too much. :rolleyes: And my inquiry...well. Anyway, I will do some experimenting, seeing I still can work with just the oil pan. I'll take pics. I'll let you know my findings.

Neil, I could wear my welcome out picking your brains for days about the Newport 30. :p


But really, thanks again everyone.


Jon

[Dave Neptune]

I made a copper tube out of 1/4" that gets down the dipstick hole and it points back toward the trans for mine and it works well especially if I futz around with it. My engine does sit at almost 15 degrees. I use a hand operated sucker and it takes about 10 minutes to get her drained.

Dave Neptune :cool:

[JOHN COOKSON]

I also use a copper tube down the dipstick hole. I cut an X across the bottom of the tube so it pulls the oil better. I tape the tube to the shift lever\cable so it doesn't hop around when I pump.
I use a hand pump called "jack rabbit pump" made by Black & Decker. Had it for years. I find I can get more oil out this way than any other I've tried.

TRUE GRIT

[ndutton]

Neil, I could wear my welcome out picking your brains for days about the Newport 30.
You have but to ask, I'll do the best I can. We can discuss things either in the Newport sub-forum or privately, your choice.

[sastanley]

Neil, what about the fun for the rest of us!?!??!?!?!? :D

[ndutton]

Okay, okay, a third option is the off-topic section for non-engine related falderal. Wouldn't want to be keeping secrets now, would we?

[Ript75]

Neil, you are right on target.

Talk about feeling moot...:D

This is a quote from Don's Spring 2010 newsletter.

"To make things a bit easier, Universal designed the floor of the oil pan so that the transmission end angles upward at approximately 20 degrees with the engine sitting level. This means that even if an engine slants to the rear by 10 degrees in a boat, the floor of the transmission end is still sloping forward by approximately 10 degrees toward a low point near the center of the engine. A 3/4” pipe-threaded hole is provided in the top ledge of the oil pan directly over this low point (generally below the carburetor) to provide access for removing the oil from this location."

Kinda answers my question doesn't it. Now I know why I was taught to read.:p

Regards,

Jon

[Kelly]

Gotta love them hifalutin words. "Falderal" is the January 25th, 2012 word of the day. I also liked "gimcrack" that I came across when looking up falderal (synonym).

[jhwelch]

Gotta love them hifalutin words. "Falderal" is the January 25th, 2012 word of the day. I also liked "gimcrack" that I came across when looking up falderal (synonym).

My lookup says "Variant of folderol." -- that's the word I learned, but when, who knows!

[hanleyclifford]

How about the 2:1? Does anybody have a method for getting that oil out?

[lat 64]

Hanley,
Do you mean the reduction gear housing?
I think it just circulates back into the engine. Maybe that's why my oil gets so dirty soon after a change. I never thought about this. I'll check about and look for a way to get at that.

Thanks for the heads up,

Update; I found this in my piling system:See attached


R

[lat 64]

It looks like there is a plug on my reduction housing!

I guess I have one more chore this spring. I'll have to get cake pan or something under that and drain it.

[roadnsky]

Gotta love them hifalutin words. "Falderal" is the January 25th, 2012 word of the day. I also liked "gimcrack" that I came across when looking up falderal (synonym).

Nice to see the fleet is still doing some learnin'... :p
Cain't never get 'nuf edamacation!

[sastanley]

russ...how the hell do you fill it? :eek: :confused:

[lat 64]

russ...how the hell do you fill it? :eek: :confused:

I do remember filling it when I put it together. I assumed that the oil circulated back and forth to the engine crankcase. I don't know what would make that happen though. There are holes for that, I guess it just splashes. ? I think I should go ahead and drain it annually and pump oil back up through the drain plug somehow. maybe a rose gun or lube pump like for outboard motor lower units. Probably get a bit messy huh?:o. Maybe, during that operation, remove those persons from the boat that have delicate sensibilities regarding strong language.

r.

[sastanley]

Hmm..I wonder if there are oil passage holes in the front of the unit to circulate crankcase oil thru the reduction gear, and the drain plug is just a way to make sure it all gets drained OUT of the reduction gear when doing an oil change.

I know that info is probably all in the manual and inside Don Moyer's head. I just don't know the answer.

[lat 64]

I looked it up before I posted, but I found nothing. My Moyer manual is from 1999, so it may be out of date on that. I do remember now figuring all this out when it was apart. I just can't remember what I figured!. Does that mean I'm getting old?
I should have made notes or more photos. I'm really glad for the ones I did take.

Best just to make sure it has oil and go sailing.

ta,
R.

[Marian Claire]

I think what Shawn describes is right. I removed my 2 to 1 with the A-4 in the boat. Oil dripped/ran out as I removed. I reinstalled with no extra oil in the 2 to 1 bell-housing. I just refilled the oil to normal level and have put a bunch of hrs on it. I know there is oil in the bell-housing because the cursed rear seal still has a slight leak. Problem is when I do a oil change a pool of dirty oil remains in the 2 to 1 housing due to the angle. I will check for the drain plug next time. Sure makes sense to get that oil out if you can. Dan S/V Marian Claire

[Ball Racing]

Who sells a prop shaft coupler to fit the 2:1 unit, it's a 4 bolt right?
I have found various 2:1's for sale, but haven't found a coupler to fit it to a one inch shaft.

[lat 64]

Ball,
Tacoma Propellor has a few. They have long one and a short one.

http://www.tacomapropeller.com/13616/Paragon-Boat-Shaft-Couplings.html

[Ball Racing]

Thank you:)