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View Poll Results: What kind of motor oil do you use?
30W 94 53.41%
10W-30 50 28.41%
10W-40 25 14.20%
Detergent 45 25.57%
Non-Detergent 4 2.27%
Natural (as opposed to synthetic) 44 25.00%
Synthetic 8 4.55%
Motorcycle Oil 4 2.27%
SG Grade 6 3.41%
Some Other Variation 8 4.55%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 176. You may not vote on this poll

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  #76   IP: 107.0.6.242
Old 02-14-2016, 12:48 PM
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
 
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We have had other members report that oil pressure increases with time and temp increase after start up. I have tried to make sense of this because it is counter intuitive to my understanding and experience that viscosity decreases with temp and hence pressure should also decrease. One factor that keeps coming to mind is the nature of the oil pump intake. The "bottleneck" is the 1/8" NPT 90 degree street ell coming right off the oil pump. Since that fitting is a casting, it's cross sectional area is subject to the irregularities of the casting process. Even a small burr in the oil stream could have an influence on flow especially at cold temperatures. Because of the foregoing "theory" I have modified my oil pump to use a 1/4" NPT fitting. The difference in oil flow was impressive and could account for the big pressure differential I live with between start up and cruise. I live with it and enjoy the (relatively) massive flow and pressure increases as well.

Last edited by hanleyclifford; 02-14-2016 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 02-14-2016, 12:49 PM
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Question

What's with all the dotted lines in the posts lately?
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  #78   IP: 98.171.162.64
Old 02-14-2016, 12:49 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbsoukup View Post
so are you guys seeing higher pressure at start up and then a decrease after the engine warms up?
Another yes.
This is why it is recommended that oil pressure be adjusted when the engine is fully warmed up at cruise RPM.

TRUE GRIT
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:22 PM
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I could have sworn I saw higher pressure with lower viscosity oil and it seemed counterintuitive to me also.
I assumed lower viscosity = lower pressure = higher flow rate but my observation (as I remember it) was opposite, pressure wise.
I don't really worry about it as I never see pressure drop below 20 or so at any time.
not sure how we could measure flow rate anyway
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:25 PM
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Mo, same with me. I try to be in around April 15, and water temps are high 30s to low 40s. Got a big fur hat and an Irish wool sweater for those days.
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  #81   IP: 98.171.162.64
Old 02-14-2016, 06:38 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is online now
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I Assume You Have An Electric Gauge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbsoukup View Post
I could have sworn I saw higher pressure with lower viscosity oil and it seemed counterintuitive to me also.
I assumed lower viscosity = lower pressure = higher flow rate but my observation (as I remember it) was opposite, pressure wise.
Try a new sending unit. Or something. With this weird stuff going on how can you be sure what your OP really is?

TRUE GRIT
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  #82   IP: 132.147.29.249
Old 02-15-2016, 07:47 AM
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I see them in IE but not in Firefox.

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Originally Posted by hanleyclifford View Post
What's with all the dotted lines in the posts lately?
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Old 02-15-2016, 07:50 AM
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My current engine starts out high - 60 PSI - and then quickly falls to 40 as it warms up.
My last engine started out at 20 and slowly built up to 40 over 20 minutes or so.

My only thought is restrictions of some kind or a bad pump = thick oil not being pumped very well. Lack of restrictions equals the usual cold oil is thicker which gives higher pressure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanleyclifford View Post
We have had other members report that oil pressure increases with time and temp increase after start up. I have tried to make sense of this because it is counter intuitive to my understanding and experience that viscosity decreases with temp and hence pressure should also decrease. One factor that keeps coming to mind is the nature of the oil pump intake. The "bottleneck" is the 1/8" NPT 90 degree street ell coming right off the oil pump. Since that fitting is a casting, it's cross sectional area is subject to the irregularities of the casting process. Even a small burr in the oil stream could have an influence on flow especially at cold temperatures. Because of the foregoing "theory" I have modified my oil pump to use a 1/4" NPT fitting. The difference in oil flow was impressive and could account for the big pressure differential I live with between start up and cruise. I live with it and enjoy the (relatively) massive flow and pressure increases as well.
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  #84   IP: 107.0.6.242
Old 02-15-2016, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_db View Post
My current engine starts out high - 60 PSI - and then quickly falls to 40 as it warms up.
My last engine started out at 20 and slowly built up to 40 over 20 minutes or so.

My only thought is restrictions of some kind or a bad pump = thick oil not being pumped very well. Lack of restrictions equals the usual cold oil is thicker which gives higher pressure.
Next time you have your oil pan down have a look and a measure of that fitting. On my engine the ID of the ell was significantly smaller than the oil pump discharge channel. I posted the figures here a while back. I'll look for the post.
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  #85   IP: 107.0.6.150
Old 02-15-2016, 10:28 AM
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This thread has some useful info: http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/sh...=9581#post9581
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  #86   IP: 108.31.90.116
Old 02-15-2016, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanleyclifford View Post
What's with all the dotted lines in the posts lately?
They're ToolTips, another great feature our Admin has set up. Commonly used, but sometimes obscure, acronyms get underlined. Hover over them with the mouse pointer to see the the full text for things like UHS, IMHO, and IIRC.

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Originally Posted by joe_db View Post
I see them in IE but not in Firefox.
Interesting. I see them fine in Firefox (on a Mac).
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  #87   IP: 107.0.6.150
Old 02-15-2016, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_db View Post
My current engine starts out high - 60 PSI - and then quickly falls to 40 as it warms up.
My last engine started out at 20 and slowly built up to 40 over 20 minutes or so.

My only thought is restrictions of some kind or a bad pump = thick oil not being pumped very well. Lack of restrictions equals the usual cold oil is thicker which gives higher pressure.
Here are the measurements I made at the time I switched to 1/4" NPT ell for the oil pickup. The oil channel thru the bearing cap measures .285". The hole thru the strainer frame measures .266". But the 1/8" NPT street ell connecting the pump to the frame only has .187" ID! That was enough to sell me on making the change.
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Old 02-17-2016, 11:22 AM
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After my partial rebuild early spring 2015 & having done at least 6 serious lil system flushes, I adjusted the oil pressure bypass in because i was seeinf pressure holding at about 25 - 30 lbs. After the adjustment I saw 35-40 lbs. Then I drained my last clean oil , something cheap and common, 10-30 and filled her up with 15-40 Rotella. Did a few more odds and ends which allowed the engine to cool down and give her a start.
The start up pressure shocked me at 70lbs right off the bat. Then quickly drolped to 60. I thought I waz going tl need to adjust the.pressure down. However, after warming up the pressure dropped back to hold.between 30-40 under normal opperation .
Obviously 60-70 is way too much but Im now wondering if opperation 30 & 40 is ok.
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Old 02-17-2016, 01:35 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is online now
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Here is what Don M. recommends on page 5-4 & 5-5 of the Moyer Manuel.
Dress up the seat of the regulating valve every 5 years or more often if necessary. Did you dress the seat as part of the rebuild?
Then readjust the OP to ~ 50 PSI cold idle then (more importantly) 40 PSI with the engine warmed up at your cursing RPM.
And on page 5-4: "As long as the OP at idle is ~ 1/2 the OP at normal cruise all bearings as well as the oil pump are in reasonably good condition."
Hope this helps.

TRUE GRIT

Last edited by JOHN COOKSON; 02-17-2016 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 02-17-2016, 02:48 PM
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I replaced all the engine wiring for the 2014 season so I know that is good.
I'm thinking the only way to be sure of correct oil pressure is to install a new gauge and matching sender.
Catalina Direct has a nice oil pressure gauge which matches the fuel gauge I installed last season, but the sender is metric thread.
Will any sender work?
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Old 02-17-2016, 03:30 PM
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadaBing View Post
After my partial rebuild early spring 2015 & having done at least 6 serious lil system flushes, I adjusted the oil pressure bypass in because i was seeinf pressure holding at about 25 - 30 lbs. After the adjustment I saw 35-40 lbs. Then I drained my last clean oil , something cheap and common, 10-30 and filled her up with 15-40 Rotella. Did a few more odds and ends which allowed the engine to cool down and give her a start.
The start up pressure shocked me at 70lbs right off the bat. Then quickly drolped to 60. I thought I waz going tl need to adjust the.pressure down. However, after warming up the pressure dropped back to hold.between 30-40 under normal opperation .
Obviously 60-70 is way too much but Im now wondering if opperation 30 & 40 is ok.
Bill - That 15-40w Rotella is rugged stuff and may not be ideal for many members. Choice of oil has a lot to do with engine condition and how you use the boat/engine. I use the Rotella because my engine is worn and loosey-goosey and I run my engine all day at cruise often as many as 12 hours at a stretch. I need the Rotella to maintain 40 psi without having to crank in the relief valve. Weather is also a factor. If I have the engine running in winter I go to 30w or in the case of last winter as low as 5-30w. Next year I will have a different engine and will probably run straight 30w if the tolerances are anywhere near spec. Right now I'm running .016" crankshaft end play and rod side play .008", both way over spec - and the bearings are right at max spec except for the cam bearings. If my engine were human the diagnosis would be internal bleeding. Rotella keeps me stuffed and quiet.
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  #92   IP: 161.213.49.150
Old 02-17-2016, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbsoukup View Post
I'm thinking the only way to be sure of correct oil pressure is to install a new gauge and matching sender.
Catalina Direct has a nice oil pressure gauge which matches the fuel gauge I installed last season, but the sender is metric thread.
Will any sender work?(Maybe)
John
You answered your own question. The sender and gauge must be matched (ie from the same manufacturer)for accurate readings.
That having been said some sending units and gauges are interchangeable because they have the same parameters. If you know the manufacturer of the sending unit and gauge you might be able to cross reference.

TRUE GRIT
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Old 02-17-2016, 06:51 PM
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Not exactly.
If the sender and the gauge are both the same range and both the common 240-33 ohms, then they should work fine together. I went through 3 gauges on my old engine with the original sender and they all worked fine. Nothing wrong with getting all new though if you are not sure what you have. Remember 33 ohms is full scale, so if you have a 100 PSI sender and an 80 PSI gauge your readings will be off.

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Originally Posted by JOHN COOKSON View Post
John
You answered your own question. The sender and gauge must be matched (ie from the same manufacturer)for accurate readings.
That having been said some sending units and gauges are interchangeable because they have the same parameters. If you know the manufacturer of the sending unit and gauge you might be able to cross reference.

TRUE GRIT
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Old 02-18-2016, 06:18 PM
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
 
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Nothing wrong with using an electric gauge and sender but I would never rely on it alone. Keep a second, direct read gauge hooked up somewhere on the engine for comparison purposes.
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Old 04-07-2016, 10:47 PM
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A mechanical gauge can be mounted most anywhere. There are tubing kits 15 feet long available.

I hooked one up on my VW bus. It was on the dash. I bled the line and had oil right at the gauge. It was very sensitive, and would go up and down when I shifted.
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Old 05-15-2016, 07:43 AM
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
 
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I had a mechanical gauge on the panel for a while fed by a long plastic "kit" tube. The plastic hardened and deteriorated over time and broke off right at the ferrule. Lesson learned: use copper for the run to the gauge.
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