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Old 04-11-2017, 06:24 AM
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Our forum server was out of service for several hours yesterday, presumably due to a hardware failure. So far as we can tell, nothing was lost. Tnx to those who took the time to let us know something was amiss.

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Old 04-11-2017, 08:36 AM
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Rigging is till intact, no chafing of lines, no leaks.
Guess we are good...
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:37 AM
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Bill
From what I've read, United topped out the voluntary de-plane offers at $800. Bet they'd pay 100 times that today to make the whole thing go away.

Thanks for all you do, Bill.
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Old 04-11-2017, 01:28 PM
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I just came from Seattle on Saturday. I was at the same gate as a plane departing for Hawaii. they were overweight (predicted strong headwinds) and they were asking for volunteers—offering $400 and a night's stay in Portland with dinner.
Not my plane but I volunteered. Ticket agent said "nice try"

We have a running agreement between wife and I, TAKE THE MONEY!
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Old 04-11-2017, 02:21 PM
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That plane was flying a route that was only a 4.5 hour drive. Gotta believe whoever was offering $800 for that was being either extremely rude or extremely unclear about the deal. My family woulda been off that plane and counting the money/vouchers long before the gendarmes showed up!
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Old 04-11-2017, 02:47 PM
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Off the forum server topic and on to the United debacle, as an industry employee, this is a sobering lesson in "Brand Integrity." The "United" flight on which this incident occurred was actually flown by another airline - Republic Airline. Republic has codesharing agreements with both United, American, and Delta. I haven't independently verified this part of the story, but I read on a closed industry forum that the reason the flight was oversold was to accommodate a crew that was being re-positioned to flight the next day. The odd part of this little tidbit is the crew was a Republic crew obviously, but was flying for the Delta subsidiary - Delta Connection.

Fascinating in an awful kind of way.
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Old 04-11-2017, 03:56 PM
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In a way, this is related to many of us as "captains"

That is; It's their plane and they have the last say what goes on(or off). If an airline employee asks me, or even tells me rudely, to get off the plane, I go. The reason for my removal can be hashed out civilly later.

And why is a doctor away from his practice more important than me wanting to see my wife?(rhetorical question). Update; when first posted, I had no idea they beat the heck outta that poor man. I hope I did not offend.

Ok, back to boats; Where do I put a self-tailing winch for my halyards?
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:49 PM
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Jimmy Kimmel said it pretty well: I go to many sporting events and they handle over 50,000 tickets at a time without any of these problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by lat 64 View Post
Ok, back to boats; Where do I put a self-tailing winch for my halyards?
Where the old halyard winch was located?
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:04 AM
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old ones were on the mast. I left one on for anything like an inner jib I may rig in the future. The main halyard winch was the kind with a brake, an arm breaker I think. It's in a box now. Safe.
I put new stays, shrouds and halyards on last summer. When the mast was on the ground, I made an organizer plate to sit under the deck-stepped mast with blocks to turn the halyards aft to the cockpit. My brother has an older IOR race boat with eight winches and he's down-sizing to clutches for some. It looks like a nickel-plated mushroom farm. He letting me have two of the self-tailers for my halyards.

Just wondering if someone has a strong opinion of good or bad placement of the winches. I don't really want to give up the option to cleat the at the mast but I may have to.

I have clutches to run the lines through before the winches so I don't have to leave them on. I have not quite figured out where to put them
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:59 PM
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Most people have an organizer forward of the hatch, so that the halyards are led out and aft from the mast, and then run the halyards aft just outside the main hatch area. This still allows you to step up on the cabin above the windows without slipping on the halyards unless you have a really skinny cabin house. The winches should be far enough back on the cabin house that you can stand on the cockpit seat and grind the winch. A lot of people end up kneeling against the aft side of the cabin house to grind. The clutches would go somewhere in front of the winch..probably at least 10" or so(??) of clearance...you want to be able to open and close the clutches without interference from a 10-12" winch handle, but also close enough you can reach them from the cockpit. All of this depends on the clutch style (how long are the handles?), how short/tall the winch is, etc...clearance may or may not play a factor.

Gotta love a buddy with an old mushroom farm on his deck making upgrades!
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Old 04-13-2017, 07:28 AM
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I had my halyards run exactly the way sastanley describes but after many years realized that with roller furling there is no benefit to having the genoa halyard run to the cockpit. The halyard barely gets touched during the season but it is always getting tangled up with everything else in the cockpit. I actually reinstalled an old halyard reel back onto the mast and replaced the halyard with thin, impressive Amsteel line the same diameter as the wire rope that had once been used. The entire halyard is stored on the reel, on the mast.

Old halyard reels in perfect condition are a dime a dozen on eBay. Well, close to a dime a dozen.
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:32 AM
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tenders...great point. My buddy's mid 2000's Beneslow has the genoa halyard on a clutch at the mast. We touch it once in the spring, and again in the fall.
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:58 AM
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My view on halyard location is a little different and both this and my last boat were set up accordingly:
  • I don't care for lines permanently routed across the deck where feet go. If these areas weren't intended for stepping they wouldn't be non-skid.
  • Dropping the main also involves flaking, one fold this way, the next that way. That's done at the mast. One guy can't manage the flaking and easing the halyard if it's in the cockpit.
  • My reefing lines are on the stbd side of the boom at the gooseneck. Slab (aka California or jiffy) reefing involves easing the halyard and cinching the reefing line, easier if both are at the mast.
  • My collapsible lazy jacks are controlled at the mast and are an integral part of handling the main - - - as is the halyard so why wouldn't both be at the same location readily available to the same crew member?
  • Cockpit clutter, self explanatory.
My Westsail, intended as a blue water cruiser, even had mast pulpits port and starboard (aka sissy bars) to make working at the mast as secure as possible. The pulpits had real belaying pins incorporated for securing lines not in use away from the mast.

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Old 04-13-2017, 12:09 PM
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Ok, Thanks for some good points, all.

I am seeing that its a matter of how I intend to use the boat. Frankly its going to be day-sailing and camping with wife for years, so setting up lines for a crew to haul on from the cockpit is my preferred. Neil's point about a mess on the deck is well taken. I like simple. However, without those "sissy bars", I am truly single-handed. I have to hang on when dousing sails. It's typical that I am pulling them down in traffic with fishing boat wakes and swell. I do this all in a rush with no tidy flaking while crew sits and waits. It's never been ideal, and is too slow for safety.
I am thinking of a clutch on the mast but I am not sure of what that would be. I can NOT have it setting itself and fouling when I would be trying to get things down.
Even If I go forward to douse, having crew(wife) just tail the halyards from the cockpit will be useful when I am up on the deck.
I have Amsteel 1/4-inch halyards now. I will have to splice or sleeve a longer piece of nice diameter line to the ends.
Re: clutter in the cockpit, Ha, that's why I'm getting free winches. There's a lesson there not to be ignored.

I have lazy jacks now too, so I am excited to shake down that. Before this, it was puppy's mother to get things in order.


Cheers,

R
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Old 04-15-2017, 07:16 AM
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Yet another very informative thread here.

When I bought my boat, it was already configured by the PO for single-handed sailing, much as Shawn described. I have found it rather straightforward to learn how to handle the lines from the cockpit, so no complaints there.

The challenge, as already pointed out here, is dropping the main while single-handed. For me, flaking while dropping the main is often a luxury. Instead, I typically douse the main and clean it up once safely back on the pin. It's never elegant and can occasionally be chaotic depending on the wind.

I have envied the lazy jacks I see on neighboring boats, so I will be curious to hear about Russ' satisfaction with his chosen configuration.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermonstah View Post
I have envied the lazy jacks I see on neighboring boats, so I will be curious to hear about Russ' satisfaction with his chosen configuration.
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/sh...8&postcount=19
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Old 04-15-2017, 03:10 PM
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Mine might be a bit different.

It has a fall(halyard) to hoist and tension it. Im not sure if that's standard.
The top lines(red) are small-dia. Dyneema about eighth-inch I think. The lower lines(blue) are thicker soft half-inch double-braid. I guess this is just for nice handling or reduce chafe maybe. The rings are bronze and are nice and slippery. The whole setup was off a Catalina 40 and I got it, blocks and all, for $200.
Im sure I could have built it for less money, but I was flush at the time and it was easy to install.
I did a bit of web searching and learned that hanging the blocks from the spreaders was easy and high enough for me and my rig. I just removed one of the spreader bots on either side and replaced it with an eye bolt. It has the advantage that the block hanging from the eye bolt is a few inches away from the mast and wont bang away in the wind if I forget to snug things up when I leave the boat.

I have not used it sailing. Boat still on the hard.

cheers,

Rus
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Last edited by lat 64; 04-19-2017 at 07:12 PM. Reason: spellin' kat-ah-leen-ahh
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:55 PM
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Shout out to Neil and Russ. And indirectly to Tom for his Lazy Jack's design.

It looks so straight forward. I am definitely tempted.

But then I remember that I always find a way to turn "routine" into "complicated."

Question: can any of these lazy jack installations be completed with the stick up, and might one configuration be easier than another without unstepping the mast?

I just replaced the standing rigging last year, and don't want to unstep the mast already.

Thanks again, very informative!
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermonstah View Post
Question: can any of these lazy jack installations be completed with the stick up, and might one configuration be easier than another without unstepping the mast?
How high are you willing to climb or be hoisted?

All these systems rely on two turning blocks mounted somewhere on the mast. If you're willing /able to go up in a chair and drill and tap four holes (cheek blocks) or attach it somehow as Russ describes, then you're done.

Bunny Planet has cheek blocks above the spreaders, about 20 feet off the bottom, and 10 feet from the top, and only two legs off the boom (both sides of the sail, obviously). You're only trying to tame the main as it comes down, and you really need to belay the whole system out of the way when hoisting or the battens catch. Or don't, and mess with it...

The whole system really lends itself to working at the mast for dowsing. Rig the lazy jacks, come into the wind, loosen the main halyard, and pull the sail down into the nest. Put one sail stop on it and get back to the cockpit. Furl in the harbor.
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Old 04-19-2017, 07:24 PM
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VM,
It's like all chores with a boat, what you can't or don't do yourself, you pay others to.
Certainly there must be a rigger (insured) near Lake Champagne that can go up the mast and hang a couple of blocks.

I'm not teasing you either. I have yet to go up the stick to see the view.
Not that I'm scared or anything, I just don't want to right now, that's all.
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Old 04-19-2017, 07:43 PM
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I built a set of lazyjacks using this plan:
http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_se...les/tamers.php

And took them off four years later. Lots of small lines flailing around to be constantly corralled, adjusted, and tucked in. Just not worth the complexity. I often handle all the sails myself and take the main down first about six feet, just past the first batten, flake the aft part of the sail and add a sail tie, then drop another ten feet, add another tie or two, then drop it the rest of the way with the final tie.

My current main is fully-battened, which helps a little, but it worked fine this way when I had the usual partially-battened sail too.
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Old 04-19-2017, 07:53 PM
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Yep, it takes a trip halfway up the mast and a good ground man is a definite plus. My lazy jacks have blocks mounted to the underside of the spreaders spaced a little away from the mast and cheek blocks toward the outboard end of the boom. Safety comment: NO BOSN'S CHAIR ATTACHMENT TO SNAP SHACKLES! Also please notice safety strap around mast above spreaders.
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Old 04-21-2017, 07:30 PM
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were we doing lazy jacks here?

Mine should be pictured here.. I made them so that they can be pulled back and down to the mast, and attached there for sailing.
The picture has the point where they get attached to the line to pull them up. It goes to just below the spreaders and down to the mast.
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