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Old 07-12-2017, 10:14 AM
Pgnorthatlantic Pgnorthatlantic is offline
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A4 after water intrusion!

Hi, hoping that someone out there could help me out.
My bildge took on water through keel (thats repair is underway)
My float switch failed and marina had to pump out boat (catalina 30)
Water probably came midway up engine block.
Water was full of oil, water has been drained and cabin sole cleaned.
Now I assume I have to take some things apart on engine, clean and change fluids.
Could anyone provide a checklist of things to go through?
Thank you!
Pete

I feel like a mosquito in a nudist colony...I dont know where to begin!?
~Denesh DaSouza
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:31 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
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Denesh: a lot depends on how hi the water came up on the engine.

First drain the oil and do not turn the engine!!! If the water did not get to the "manifold" the cylinders and valves should be OK. AGAIUN DO NOT TURN YET!!!!

If the starter was submerged get it rebuilt~don't bother messing with it!

Can give more info but need to know what was submerged.

If the carb was submerged remove and place in a bucket of soapy water until ready to completely clean. This will help with oxidation deposits and salt deposits until they are removed via a tear down.

Just give an idea of the water line on the block or even post a photo.

This is no biggie if you get after it right away~save the motor first.

Dave Neptune
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:35 AM
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Pete,

This situation occurred with my engine - over a winter! It must have sat full of water for quite some time.

Drained oil - refilled oil - started engine - ran it for a solid 20 minutes.
Drained oil - refilled oil - started engine - ran it for a solid 20 minutes.
Drained oil - refilled oil - started engine - ran it for a solid 20 minutes.

By the third time the oil stopped turning milky white and I left it at that for a while. Monitored the oil pretty carefully and changed it somewhat sooner than I otherwise might have.

Mechanic who assisted me seemed deathly afraid of the engine getting "flash rust" so we did the initial drain-refill-run as quickly as possible.

Hope that helps,

Peter

PS - Dave knows a heck of a lot more about these beasties than I do - heed his advice.

Last edited by Peter; 07-12-2017 at 10:38 AM. Reason: get OP's name right and add caveat about Dave
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Old 07-12-2017, 02:21 PM
Pgnorthatlantic Pgnorthatlantic is offline
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Thank you guys so much,
I will get some pics when I get down to boat,
But first thing I will do is drain oil and refil.
Not sure how to get it drained, should I get one of those fluid pumps?
The PO has this hose assembmy on board not sure what he used it for
But I will take a pic.
In meantime I will search forums for oil change procedures

A thousand thanks for helping me get the ball rolling!!!
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Old 07-12-2017, 03:05 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
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Denesh, the most common way of draining is to "suck" it out through the dipstick.

In your case since the engine has not run or spun with the water you can just suck the water out from under it and use the remaining oil for the first "start". The oil will float on top of the water just fine. I have done this more than a few times.

When you are ready to start the beastie, with the remaining oil add a couple of table spoons of dish soap as it will help the oil to emulsify the water making it easier to remove.

Dave Neptune
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  #6   IP: 71.118.13.238
Old 07-12-2017, 03:06 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
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Part II, keep track of how much water you get out from under the oil too.

Dave Neptune
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Old 07-12-2017, 03:24 PM
Pgnorthatlantic Pgnorthatlantic is offline
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Dave can I keep you posted as I progress?
First thing I need to do is get fluid extractor.
Will the kind from autozone work any good?
Got laid off this week, so im trying not to have to spend $100 on the west marine pump, but I will surely in the future.
Better Days will come!

Thank you!
And thanks to you also Peter!

Last edited by Pgnorthatlantic; 07-12-2017 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 07-12-2017, 03:30 PM
Pgnorthatlantic Pgnorthatlantic is offline
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(I was planning to buy a pump anyway to change the front diff fluid on my jeep)
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:54 PM
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Any kind of fluid extractor will work. On a gas engine boat, IMO, the manual type are preferred to avoid spark/ignition problems related to using a battery. The West marine one is pricey but you can find cheaper ones on the Internet. West Marine does not make anything themselves, they source and upcharge. I think most of the WM extractors are Mityvac, which you can also get on Amazon.
One of these 'bicycle pump on steroids' style extractor pumps will pay for itself over and over again once you invest in it (I realize $$ is tight), but as you noted you can use it for your Jeep, etc.
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Last edited by sastanley; 07-12-2017 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 07-12-2017, 09:52 PM
Pgnorthatlantic Pgnorthatlantic is offline
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Mityvac.
Thanks Shawn!
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Old 07-13-2017, 05:39 PM
Pgnorthatlantic Pgnorthatlantic is offline
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I would hate to order online and wait for shipping,
do any local stores carry these pumps?
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Old 07-13-2017, 06:11 PM
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to remove oil

for changing the oil, I got the "multi use transfer pump" from Harbor Freight

https://www.harborfreight.com/multi-...ump-66418.html

It has a small black extension hose that fits down the dipstick hole. I stuck a piece of stainless wire about 8 inches up the tube and used that to keep it straight to reach the bottom.

While you have the carburetor off, install the MMI oil change kit! I just did and it was easy!

Sorry about your misfortune!
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Old 07-13-2017, 07:47 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent W View Post
. I stuck a piece of stainless wire about 8 inches up the tube and used that to keep it straight to reach the bottom.
I know the drill.
I took a section of aluminum tubing that I had laying around and cut an X across the bottom to improve flow attached the hose to the pump to the other end. This way I know that I'm as deep down into the trany as I can get.

TRUE GRIT
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Old 07-14-2017, 09:10 AM
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West Marine has the extractors. Amazon ships pretty fast too
You need to get this done ASAP! When a friends Pearson 30 sank, the boat was salvaged in a couple of days and it was not even an hour between the boat surfacing and the A4 being run. No harm at all to the engine.

The oil and water do separate too. I had a powerboat with a water leak that would gain about half a gallon of water in a few days in the engine. We used to put a dish under the engine, loosen the oil drain, and pure water would come out. When oil started coming out we tightened the plug and started her up.
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Old 07-14-2017, 09:34 AM
Pgnorthatlantic Pgnorthatlantic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent W View Post
for changing the oil, I got the "multi use transfer pump" from Harbor Freight

https://www.harborfreight.com/multi-...ump-66418.html

It has a small black extension hose that fits down the dipstick hole. I stuck a piece of stainless wire about 8 inches up the tube and used that to keep it straight to reach the bottom.

While you have the carburetor off, install the MMI oil change kit! I just did and it was easy!

Sorry about your misfortune!
Thank you!! I was getting just beginning to get familiar with my A4 when all this occurred. I think I may have the oil change kit, I will look.
I will take some pics.
Thanks a mil !
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Old 07-14-2017, 09:43 AM
Pgnorthatlantic Pgnorthatlantic is offline
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I am in the Providence River which feeds into the Narragansett bay.
I was surprised how fresh the water is..tastes like rainwater here, but a mile down the cove I get a mouthful of brine.
Thanks to everyone again.
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:47 PM
Pgnorthatlantic Pgnorthatlantic is offline
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I pumped water out of pan and added some new oil.
Removed spark plugs and put some mystery oil in each of the cylinders...
I left spark plugs out and tried to get engine turn over.
I heard starter clicking strong, but crankshaft was not turning.
I wanted try manually spinning shaft, let it soak and get it to break free, BUT
On the Catalina 30 there is no room to access front of flywheel.
Would cutting out a permanent access hatch be advisable?
Thank you.
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Old 08-12-2017, 05:07 PM
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What is on the other side of that?
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Old 08-12-2017, 05:07 PM
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I needed access to the crankshaft myself (see this thread) so I cut a hole but not before figuring how to cover it after I was done.
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prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
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I needed access to the crankshaft myself (see this thread) so I cut a hole but not before figuring how to cover it after I was done.
Very nice!
Thank you.
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:03 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
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Lightbulb

P, it has been long enough to rust the rings to the cylinder walls so they will need to be broken loose. Rather than cut a hole in the boat where you will have little leverage do this. Pull the starter which is no biggie. Now the ring gear is exposed so it can be worked. Use a big screw driver or pry bar and wedge it firmly against the tooth of the gear and give it a push. VERY VERY VERY important to push the tooth up then the next push is down IE up then down then up then down ETC. Keep applying a little more pressure with each push. This rocking of the crank will work the rings loose in almost all cases. If you start to tear up a tooth time for plan "B".

Take special care in getting the prying piece well placed on the tooth each time so you are applying pressure and not SLIPPING off of the tooth.

Dave Neptune
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:02 PM
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Dave is correct is saying that you can exert considerable twisting force on the crankshaft by using a pry-bar through the starter hole on the starter ring, however, cutting that crankshaft roll pin access hole opens up several other possibilities. By cutting that hole, it will allow you to use either of the Moyer crank rotation tools for things like doing valve adjustments, valve spring replacements or, in your case, rocking a stuck crankshaft back and forth to free up the rings. I cut the hole in mine so that I could set the timing to the factory recommended specs, a method that I feel is superior to the "seat of the pants" method of "power timing".
Tom
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Old 08-14-2017, 05:21 PM
Pgnorthatlantic Pgnorthatlantic is offline
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Thanks , I plan to remove starter and also cut a hole in the future.
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Old 08-14-2017, 05:43 PM
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My Cat 30 was taking on water through the keel boats while at dock, maybe from always being in the mud lots of times when tide was very low.
Also looks like there was a delamination issue around the aft of my keel. It's funny bc water was coming up though the aft of the bilge
And now that boat is on stands with a bilge full of water,
there is no sign of reverse leaking, the hull to keel joint is dry in all areas that I have inspected.
Another odd thing was large plates of bottom paint falling off. A yard worker said the P.O. had let the barrier coat set up too long. The barrier coat was smooth as glass in these area.
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Old 08-14-2017, 08:46 PM
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Wow...I have never heard of a keel failure on a C-30 even though the bolts were mild steel thru the late 70's (mine has them and is a 77 boat).

Max Munger who really was all things C-30 for a long time, said the 'slurry' they used was so strong that it was hard to actually try to remove a keel when you wanted to.

As for the bottom paint..if it hasn't bonded to the barrier underneath, I would think a cheap citrus stripper might take it off at this point.
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