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  #1   IP: 38.118.52.41
Old 02-10-2006, 07:55 AM
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Smile Marvel Mystery Oil

Here's a reprise of a tech note on Marvel Mystery Oil we shared with our email subscribers a couple of years ago:

Marvel Mystery Oil was formulated shortly after World War I by an automotive engineer named Burt Pierce. Pierce was best known for his invention of the "Marvel Carburetor", which became the standard automobile carburetor of its time. GM bought the rights to much of Pierce's work and hired him as a consultant.

One of the things that Pierce did during his relatively short stay with GM was to cook up a mixture of "light oils and various chemicals" to clean sludge and lead build-up out of carburetors. In 1923, Pierce went out on his own, incorporated as Marvel Oil, and began selling his recipe of light oil and other chemicals as "Mystery Oil", claiming it to be a "universal lubricant and cleaner". One of the more recent VP's of the Marvel Oil Company is quoted as saying: "'The basic formula hasn't changed since 1917".

WHAT IS IT?


My own understanding from earlier articles on the subject is that Marvel Mystery Oil is a light viscosity oil, roughly equivalent to an SAE 3W, containing (among other things) about 20 percent solvent (probably mineral spirits), dye, wintergreen for smell, and 790 PPM of a phosphorous additive.

WHY DO I NEED IT IN MY ATOMIC 4 AND NOT IN MY CAR?

Unlike your clean running modern automobile engine, your Atomic 4 has a lower compression ratio, doesn't have the latest electronic fuel injection and ignition systems to optimize its combustion parameters at every power setting and temperature condition, and doesn't get used nearly as consistently. In other words, your Atomic 4 is much more like your Aunt Tillie's 1952 flathead, in-line six-cylinder Plymouth than your family's Ford Taurus today. Not that your Taurus wouldn't benefit somewhat from MMO, but your Aunt Tillie's Plymouth thrived on it twice a week; once to church and once to the grocery store around the corner.

HOW IS IT USED?


By far, the preferred way to use MMO is to mix it with the gasoline in your fuel tank as an upper cylinder lubricant. Directions on the back of the can recommend 4 to 6 ounces per 10 gallons of fuel. MMO then goes through the carburetor with the fuel, enters the combustion chamber, and ignites with the gasoline.

From there, it vaporizes and soaks into any carbon build-up within the combustion chambers (especially in and around the rings and between valve stems and guides). It eventually loosens these build-ups so that the carbon residue can exit through the exhaust system. Quoting loosely from the back of the can, "MMO also leaves behind a lubricating residue in the aftermath of the combustion process". Like, how good can that be!

The engineering staff from Universal (when they were still in business) was very outspoken on the use of MMO; in fact, they recommended doubling the recipe used in the fuel in cases whenever there was any hint of sticky valves or other indication of carbon and gum build-up within the engine.

We have never recommended continued use of MMO in the engine oil. However, in cases where it is suspected that carbon and sludge have built up within the crankcase, a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil can be added to the crankcase 5 hours before an oil change to help remove the carbon and sludge, especially in and around oil rings and valve tappets. The residue that mixes with the oil will be removed during the next oil change.

NOTE: Our reservation with respect to the continuous use of MMO in the crankcase is that it reportedly contains no dispersant to hold dirt in suspension, and therefore dilutes the dispersing ability of our modern high-detergent oils. With an SAE rating of 3W, MMO also dilutes the viscosity index of a multi-viscosity oil, making it somewhat less resistant to temperature changes.

Our reservation on the continuous use of MMO in the crankcase notwithstanding, the use of MMO as an upper cylinder lubricant is the most cost-effective thing you can do to insure the longest possible life from your engine and delay (many times indefinitely) the expense of a rebuild.


Don

Last edited by Don Moyer; 02-10-2006 at 07:59 AM.
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  #2   IP: 72.131.19.158
Old 02-10-2006, 02:37 PM
Hazelnut Hazelnut is offline
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Don,

What about its use in diesel engines?

Hazelnut
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Old 02-11-2006, 07:48 AM
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Hazelnut,

My understanding from inquiries that I made quite a few years ago is that the original Marvel Oil Company did make a line of products that were developed specifically for the special needs of diesel engines. Since the Marvel Oil Company was bought by the Turtle Wax Company, it's a little difficult for me to navigate through their web site (heavy into car cleaning info) to get information on Mystery Oil. All I can suggest is that you email them at their customer service address CustomerService@turtlewaxcarwash.com and ask them for directions to the Marvel Mystery Oil counter.

Don
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Old 02-18-2006, 04:09 PM
Hazelnut Hazelnut is offline
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Marvel Mystery Oil Continued

Don et al

I contacted the MMO people as you suggested about its use in diesel engines with this result:

>>> "Priscilla Pribyl" <ppribyl@turtlewaxcarwash.com> 2/14/2006 9:31 AM >>>

Dear Mr. Kowalsky:

Thank you for your interest in Marvel Mystery Oil. In rresponse to your question, Marvel provides similar benefits to diesel fuel as it does to gasoline. With today's lower sulfur content (and going lower) in diesel fuel, Marvel Mystery Oil provides replacement lubrication lost by the decrease in sulfur levels. In also seems to reduce hard carbon deposit build-up and help increase fuel economy. If we can be of any additional service, please let us know.

Sincerely,

Marvel Oil Company, Inc.
Richard P. Kelly
Technical Manager, Performance Products
rkelly@turtlewax.com

Hazelnut
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Old 10-08-2007, 06:23 PM
Mike Jenkins Mike Jenkins is offline
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Marvel Mystery Oil

Hi Folks,

I just found out that my local Canadian Tire Store no longer carries Marvel Mystery Oil. Does any one know of a suitable alternative product that can be used for a similar aplication. Or, can anyone suggest an eastern Canadian supplier of Marvel Mystery Oil.

Regards, Mike
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Old 10-08-2007, 06:42 PM
baileyem baileyem is offline
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Substitute for MMO

Mike

I understand from some sailboating friends of mine that Riselone (spelling ?) is an adequate ( if not better) substitute for MMO. I cannot offer my own opinion, as I haven't used Riselone since I was driving a 1951 Ford flathead in which I was willing to use anything that promised to improve its performance. It had 50,000 miles on it when I bought it in 1957 and needed all the help it could get. I cannot say that Riselone improved its performance, but what the heck, I was 17 and would believe anything at the time.
The boat people that recommended Riselone were old enough and experienced enough to believe their recommendations. I credit their advice with enough credibility to try Riselone when I use up my supply of MMO.

Mike
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Old 10-09-2007, 02:51 PM
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I've found MMO at most of the local auto parts stores here in SE Mass as well as at Walmarts.
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Old 06-05-2008, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Jenkins View Post
Hi Folks, I just found out that my local Canadian Tire Store no longer carries Marvel Mystery Oil. Does any one know of a suitable alternative product that can be used for a similar aplication. Or, can anyone suggest an eastern Canadian supplier of Marvel Mystery Oil.
Regards, Mike
------
Found at http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/inde...te/wheretobuy/ on 05 June 2008:

"Unfortunately, Marvel Mystery Oil is not available anymore at Canadian Tire.
However, Marvel Mystery Oil in the US Gallon size is stocked by TruServ Canada. The TruServ Canada stocking number is 0414200. The phone number for TruServ Canada headquarters is 204.453.9511. Call headquarters if you are having trouble finding this product at your local store."
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Old 07-24-2008, 04:18 AM
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Called TruServ. Very helpful. Gave suggestion for how to order through a local store.

Last edited by rigspelt; 07-24-2008 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 12-27-2008, 11:05 AM
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Canadian update: Found some by accident today at Home Hardware in Charlottetown.

Update July 2009: Then I learned that MMI supplies it: MISC_08_272 http://www.moyermarine.com/cgi-bin/s...ey=MISC_08_272.
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Last edited by rigspelt; 07-17-2009 at 05:08 AM.
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Old 02-07-2009, 09:26 AM
Chris T Chris T is offline
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Use of ZDDP Motor Oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Moyer View Post
Here's a reprise of a tech note on Marvel Mystery Oil we shared with our email subscribers a couple of years ago:

Marvel Mystery Oil was formulated shortly after World War I by an automotive engineer named Burt Pierce. Pierce was best known for his invention of the "Marvel Carburetor", which became the standard automobile carburetor of its time. GM bought the rights to much of Pierce's work and hired him as a consultant.

One of the things that Pierce did during his relatively short stay with GM was to cook up a mixture of "light oils and various chemicals" to clean sludge and lead build-up out of carburetors. In 1923, Pierce went out on his own, incorporated as Marvel Oil, and began selling his recipe of light oil and other chemicals as "Mystery Oil", claiming it to be a "universal lubricant and cleaner". One of the more recent VP's of the Marvel Oil Company is quoted as saying: "'The basic formula hasn't changed since 1917".

WHAT IS IT?


My own understanding from earlier articles on the subject is that Marvel Mystery Oil is a light viscosity oil, roughly equivalent to an SAE 3W, containing (among other things) about 20 percent solvent (probably mineral spirits), dye, wintergreen for smell, and 790 PPM of a phosphorous additive.

WHY DO I NEED IT IN MY ATOMIC 4 AND NOT IN MY CAR?

Unlike your clean running modern automobile engine, your Atomic 4 has a lower compression ratio, doesn't have the latest electronic fuel injection and ignition systems to optimize its combustion parameters at every power setting and temperature condition, and doesn't get used nearly as consistently. In other words, your Atomic 4 is much more like your Aunt Tillie's 1952 flathead, in-line six-cylinder Plymouth than your family's Ford Taurus today. Not that your Taurus wouldn't benefit somewhat from MMO, but your Aunt Tillie's Plymouth thrived on it twice a week; once to church and once to the grocery store around the corner.

HOW IS IT USED?


By far, the preferred way to use MMO is to mix it with the gasoline in your fuel tank as an upper cylinder lubricant. Directions on the back of the can recommend 4 to 6 ounces per 10 gallons of fuel. MMO then goes through the carburetor with the fuel, enters the combustion chamber, and ignites with the gasoline.

From there, it vaporizes and soaks into any carbon build-up within the combustion chambers (especially in and around the rings and between valve stems and guides). It eventually loosens these build-ups so that the carbon residue can exit through the exhaust system. Quoting loosely from the back of the can, "MMO also leaves behind a lubricating residue in the aftermath of the combustion process". Like, how good can that be!

The engineering staff from Universal (when they were still in business) was very outspoken on the use of MMO; in fact, they recommended doubling the recipe used in the fuel in cases whenever there was any hint of sticky valves or other indication of carbon and gum build-up within the engine.

We have never recommended continued use of MMO in the engine oil. However, in cases where it is suspected that carbon and sludge have built up within the crankcase, a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil can be added to the crankcase 5 hours before an oil change to help remove the carbon and sludge, especially in and around oil rings and valve tappets. The residue that mixes with the oil will be removed during the next oil change.

NOTE: Our reservation with respect to the continuous use of MMO in the crankcase is that it reportedly contains no dispersant to hold dirt in suspension, and therefore dilutes the dispersing ability of our modern high-detergent oils. With an SAE rating of 3W, MMO also dilutes the viscosity index of a multi-viscosity oil, making it somewhat less resistant to temperature changes.

Our reservation on the continuous use of MMO in the crankcase notwithstanding, the use of MMO as an upper cylinder lubricant is the most cost-effective thing you can do to insure the longest possible life from your engine and delay (many times indefinitely) the expense of a rebuild.


Don
Don will the use of ZDDP (zinc) Motor Oil be usefull for the A-4 Engine? It is recommended for flat tappet engines.
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Old 02-08-2009, 08:40 AM
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Chris,

Sorry, but I have no information on ZDDP (zinc) Motor Oil. In our experience, the Atomic 4 will thrive on any good quality motor oil. We continue to have a minor preference for single viscosity 30-weight oil in most of our operating areas, but 10-30 oil is also OK or even 15-40 in hotter climates.

Don
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Old 02-09-2009, 03:23 PM
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STP engine oil additive or similar additive for A-4?

Would it be benefical to run that thick STP oil treatment or a similar such treatment in the crankcase of an Atomic 4. The stuff seemed to help quiet down old car engines but I've always heard pros and cons on this. Anyone have any thought on this.

DVD
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Old 02-10-2009, 10:13 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
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Thumbs up Stp

Gentlemen, I have been using STP in my raw water cooled no thermostat (using a by-pass valve 130/140 degrees or cooler) set up for the last 25 years on a 39 year old original never been out A-4 here in Southern California. The engine was tired quite a few years ago and still runs fine. This must say something about the product. I sometimes add a little synthetic two-stroke oil in my fuel for a top end lubricant as it stays mixed better than most oils. I usually add a little that's left in the fuel can for the dinghy. The two-stroke synthetic is easier for me to find as I have 7 outboard motors in my fleet and the synthetic definately works better in them. I have used the MMO and it works well it's just easier to carry one fuel lubricant in the Volador.

My biggest problem is that the anti-syphon valve sticks once or twice a year and I get a engine full of saltwater to flush out. At least that keeps clean oil in the poor ole' A-4 and she has never been stuck since I bought her when she was frozen stuck 25 years ago. Maybe the STP does stay stuck to the moving parts better just as they advertise.

Dave Neptune
1970 E-35 MkII w/original A-4
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:41 PM
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STP in the crankcase

I'd like to know what Don thinks of this and also how much of the STP is recommended. eg. whole quart or something less. Also, if I remember correctly the STP would be poured into a hot fully warmed up engine to insure proper mixing. Any other procedures or tricks before I try some.

DVD
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:30 PM
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Dave,

My C-30 had an anti-siphon valve halfway between the muffler & the thru-hull. As a kid I remember hearing it tick but for the last 20 years or so, it has been broken. After some research, I am removing it and adding in a 45 degree fiberglass elbow, since I already have a break in my exhaust hose in that location (came in two 10 foot sections), and need at least a coupler there.

That might avoid the back-up, if your loop is high enough to avoid siphoning in the first place. Apparently it was included in earlier C-30's, but not included in later ones. Since this one's been broken for so long (the flap was laying in the fitting), it obviously hasn't been doing anything for years. The only time (twice) this motor had seawater in it was from overcranking.
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:55 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
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Thumbs up Stp

I just add what I believe is the pint size and I use 30wt oil as well. No problems yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave Neptune
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:05 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
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Cool Vented loop

Shawn, unfortunately my engine sits a-mid-ships and the loop is on my water injection side of the exhaust. Because the loop has to be so far from that point due to routing my exhaust will almost fill up from what is in the loop itself. I am using the shortest route for the vent, which is aqctually mounted in the main salon area so I can hear it break open if I remember to listen and I have a manual vent as well.

Dave
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:51 AM
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Hi Dave...sorry, maybe I wasn't clear...

I also have an anti-siphon valve (similar to the one Moyer sells here) in my water injection system for the exhaust. What I meant in my previous post is the loop is simply the exhaust hose itself being lifted as high as possible above the waterline in the sail locker..at this point the 'coupler' was one of those one-way bronze flapper valves..I have chosen to replace it with a simple fiberglass coupler, since the flapper valve hasn't functioned for over 20 years.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:43 PM
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DVD,

Having no experience whatever with any STP product, I will have to defer to those who have.

Don
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Old 02-09-2012, 02:52 PM
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SeaFoam

After reading Don Moyer's description of MMO it appears to me to be similar to SeaFoam a product which is easily available in Canada and the US and does the same thing. I have used SeaFoam in old motorcycles and it cleans them out marvellously. Runs smoother, idles smoother etc. Maybe it would be an equivalent to MMO more readily available?????

Thoughts??
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Old 02-09-2012, 03:37 PM
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MMO is easily available in the US at almost any auto parts store. I have heard that it can be difficult to obtain in Canada. As to its comparison with the sea foam product I don't have any experience with it.

dvd
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Old 02-09-2012, 10:46 PM
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old-sailor,
While I have not used Seafoam on my old A4 yet, it does seem to fit in the same niche as Marvel Mystery Oil so I would probably use it in the absence of MMO. They had Seafoam on the auto parts store I was in about a week ago right next to MMO in NY State.
I say use it but with the caveat that you use it according to the label's directions. It is the "foam" part of the Seafoam name that makes me wonder and since I've never used it I wouldn't know.
Don Moyer recommends using MMO as an additive to the fuel and in some cases to the oil reservoir as well. MMO is an oil, about a 3W oil and is not a foam. MMO also claims to have rust/corrosion protection additives which sounds a lot like the claims of Seafoam.
I use MMO to fog our engine come winter layup; that is, I put several good squirts into each cylinder. I will repeat this procedure as I see fit during the season to help loosen the cylinder rings, valves etc. Seafoam sounds like it should do nearly the same thing in both the fuel and lubricating systems.
http://www.seafoamsales.com/how-to-u...treatment.html
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:35 PM
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I swear by Seafoam, it has different use than mmo as far as a lubricant or rust preventative. I put in everything that runs or sits around idle ,lawn mowers, Onan generators,all my cars and trucks. This is the only product I have ever poured into a fuel tank or straight into the carb. and could immediately tell a difference in performance and fuel mileage. I buy it by the case. It isn't cheap but it is worth every penny.
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Old 02-10-2012, 09:06 AM
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Seafoam does not "foam". It's just a name. I use it to keep fuel systems clean, and for unsticking things, but it's not a lubricant like MMO.

If I needed unsticking properties in a lubricant, I'd use MMO. If I needed unsticking and cleaning properties, I'd use Seafoam.
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