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  #1   IP: 66.102.86.61
Old 10-22-2017, 08:45 PM
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Moving fuel tank

Moving the fuel tank from behind the engine to the starboard cockpit locker. Almost all plumbed - shelf bed, hose clamps and new fittings for the tank to get still.


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Old 10-22-2017, 10:50 PM
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Greg, looks like a lot of work, but probably worth it to have good access to the tank and not have the fill (I assume) in the cockpit floor.
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Old 10-23-2017, 07:53 AM
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Looks good. I would recommend taking that steel angle-iron frame out and having it sandblasted and powder coated before the final assembly.

Or, at very least, given a good thick set of coats of rustoleium.
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  #4   IP: 192.186.122.174
Old 10-23-2017, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardc View Post
Looks good. I would recommend taking that steel angle-iron frame out and having it sandblasted and powder coated before the final assembly.

Or, at very least, given a good thick set of coats of rustoleium.
Sorry, I'm not following - to which steel angle-iron frame are you referring?..

oh... umm... If it's the "rusty" frame in the pictures , that is actually scrap mahogany I had in the shop that has been soaked in Daly's sealer. There will be painted 1/2" ply being fastened to the top of that frame

Previous location it was held down to the support frame cross braces by copper strapping - planning to do something similar but not with copper. Should be strong enough shouldn't it?
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Old 10-23-2017, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sastanley View Post
Greg, looks like a lot of work, but probably worth it to have good access to the tank and not have the fill (I assume) in the cockpit floor.
Thanks. it is... but since I cannot fit INTO the cockpit lockers in the A30 and access everything from the side... I have to make it adjust to my... body type

House batteries will be in the port locker and weight wise will help balance things.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:43 AM
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What is that tank made of and what are those bubbles in the coating?
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Old 10-23-2017, 09:07 PM
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A few years ago...

Here's a forum thread with some install thoughts:

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5471

Russ
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Old 10-24-2017, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_db View Post
What is that tank made of and what are those bubbles in the coating?
It's original galvanized steel tank that had a couple spots fixed and a bedliner type of coating put on it I am told. I have a scope that I will look on the inside and see what's up with those spots. It's been sitting empty to the air for 3 years. Those bumps do not look so huge in person - now i'm concerned.

Last edited by GregH; 10-24-2017 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 10-24-2017, 12:04 PM
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In the cold weather I like old steel gas cans for yard duty and transport in a pickup but I prefer plastic(good cross-linked poly) for the boat stuff. If that old tank is questionable, maybe it's time to retire it to the farm as a generator tank or something.

Look what I found:
https://www.marineoutfitters.ca/inde...eller%20FT1624



The best online price i have found is:

http://www.lfsmarineoutdoor.com/boat...uel-tanks.html

I do applaud all your efforts at relocating the tank to make it more serviceable.

Russ
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Old 10-24-2017, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregH View Post
It's original galvanized steel tank that had a couple spots fixed and a bedliner type of coating put on it I am told. I have a scope that I will look on the inside and see what's up with those spots. It's been sitting empty to the air for 3 years. Those bumps do not look so huge in person - now i'm concerned.

No way would I put a steel tank in any boat. Please try and find a modern fuel tank for your project. Plenty of aluminum and poly tanks around in various sizes.
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Old 10-24-2017, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregH View Post
Sorry, I'm not following - to which steel angle-iron frame are you referring?..

oh... umm... If it's the "rusty" frame in the pictures , that is actually scrap mahogany I had in the shop that has been soaked in Daly's sealer. There will be painted 1/2" ply being fastened to the top of that frame

Previous location it was held down to the support frame cross braces by copper strapping - planning to do something similar but not with copper. Should be strong enough shouldn't it?
Aha! Now I see it. Kind of like those drawings that you can't decide is its a vase or two faces! My perception keeps switching back and forth!

Straps sound good, but don't use plain steel. Both my Monel fuel tank and my poly water tanks were held down with steel straps, and they all rotted through and broke.
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Old 10-25-2017, 07:47 AM
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Fuel Tanks

The USCG requirements at http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9280 contain much on tank construction and installation.
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Old 10-25-2017, 11:32 AM
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Ok, I'll jump on the bandwagon too since that is a steel tank. Since you are going to all this trouble, if the budget allows, I'd also recommend a poly tank. I replaced my aluminum tank (pin hole in the lowest corner I assume from water sitting in there due to ethanol fuel) with a Moeller of similar dimensions..they have lots and lots of different sizes.

http://moellermarine.com/product-cat...nt-fuel-tanks/ for determining an appropriate size, then shop around for the best price/supplier.
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Old 10-25-2017, 11:48 AM
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I just reread some of these posts and something struck me; copper, zinc, and steel siting in a mist of bilge water.
It's a battery!

A plastic tank should be properly grounded too.

R
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Old 10-25-2017, 07:46 PM
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Had a break at work today and went to see what was in the warehouse (thanks "Lat 64 "for the great link! )

Looks like tank(pic below) will work nicely. Just have to make sure it'll fit through the locker hatch! The set back for the fill nozzle, and set at 90 degrees will really help with the hose attachment issues.

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Old 10-25-2017, 08:01 PM
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The tank is polyethylene, deck fill is polymer with built in vent for tank vent hose, typical fill hose connects the two.

Deck fill meets the new CARB and EPA requirements of U.S.C.G. Safety Standards (July 31, 2011) for 40 CFR Parts 9, 60, 80 et al. Control of Diurnal Emissions From Nonroad Spark-Ignition Engines and Equipment

Have not come across (yet) info on grounding this. Still going through the document from the link earlier. Have always read about grounding metal deck fills, but not polymer ones. There is no pre-existing grounding point in the deck fill.

Thoughts?....

From the USGS Fuel Systems pdf; "If the fuel tank deck fill fitting is nonmetallic, and nonconductive hose is used as a fill pipe, there is
no need for grounding the fill fitting. "(pg. 86)

But I will still have to run a ground from the fill spud/fitting as it is metal.

Last edited by GregH; 10-25-2017 at 08:55 PM. Reason: New info.
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Old 10-26-2017, 11:59 AM
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The concern is a spark from static electricity. Same as when you fill plastic gas jugs at a gas pump(set them on the ground to discharge any static charge).
Here, it is essentially; a ground wire from deck fill fitting to tank fitting and then to boat ground network. The gas gauge sender needs a ground also to function(and safety too).
I found a person's blog that studied this quite well:
https://boatbuild.wordpress.com/2010...stic-gas-tank/

I hope you get an employee discount

Russ
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Old 10-26-2017, 02:06 PM
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the tank in the Triton was held in place with wooden chocks at the base, and two spars of teak glassed to hull and inside of cockpit wall across the top.

James
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Old 10-26-2017, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lat 64 View Post
Here, it is essentially; a ground wire from deck fill fitting to tank fitting and then to boat ground network. The gas gauge sender needs a ground also to function(and safety too)
10 gauge minimum for this grounding system, green wire color.
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Old 10-26-2017, 09:26 PM
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So how do people secure their fuel tanks? The Scepter permanent fuel tank does not have any attachment points for hold downs.
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Old 10-26-2017, 10:20 PM
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Ask your warehouse for this:
http://moellermarine.com/moeller-mar...wn-kit-300110/

I used a surplus 2-inch wide lifting strap form the smoke jumpers and some "D" rings. I'm quite sure it's nylon.

Whatever you do, make it over-built. Nothing too-strong ever broke, and a fuel tank is the last thing you want to come loose in a slop.

So, this is interesting. I found this on the Moeller site:
PERMEATION
Permeation is a natural phenomenon of gasoline in a cross-linked polyethylene fuel tank.
Permeation is the result of gasoline fumes escaping from the fuel tank, not the loss of liquid fuel.
Several precautions need to be addressed when using a cross-linked polyethylene fuel tank:
Fuel (gasoline) vapors settle to the lowest point in the compartment, therefore, a means for removing the fumes is required. See ABYC Standards Section H-2 for specifics.
A covered boat will not allow these fumes to escape, so build up of these fumes is inevitable. Caution should be taken when a boats fuel tank contains fuel and is covered for an extended period of time. A boat cover should never cover the fuel tanks exterior vent fitting(s).
Fuel vapors will migrate to any compartment open to the fuel tank. The smell of fuel vapors does not necessarily mean that there is a leak in the fuel tank, but a closer inspection should be performed.
Fuel vapors may be absorbed by other objects located in compartments where fuel vapor may migrate. Following the above precautions, a cross-linked polyethylene fuel tank will provide years of service.
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Last edited by lat 64; 10-26-2017 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 10-27-2017, 08:37 AM
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Morning!

I put an inquiry into our supplier yesterday for that item matter as fact Lat 64. So we'll see what time frame and $$ is for it.

Learn something new about this biz everyday! fumes through the tank - good to know.
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregH View Post
Morning!

I put an inquiry into our supplier yesterday for that item matter as fact Lat 64. So we'll see what time frame and $$ is for it.

Learn something new about this biz everyday! fumes through the tank - good to know.
Ha! I love helping people spend their money.

A story.
In 2005 I bought a Catalina 22 in Washington state. It had a nice new-ish yamaha 4hp and the standard plastic portable gas tank. I used the boat a little in Puget sound before towing it to Alaska. It always had a gas smell. Even when I left the tank up on deck. Camping on it was not pleasant because of the fumes.

I could not find any leaks anywhere.

After using up all the gas from Washington, I filled up with Alaska gas. No more smells. EVER! I belive the Wash. gas had more light volatile compounds than Ak. gas. I thought it was going right through the tank. Now I'm sure of it.
Our gas up here is much more stable too. No booze in it to absorb water. I routinely ignore to use stabilizer or any special efforts to preserve the gas in all the yard machines. I do expressly try to keep it dry though.

Remember, what Dave Barry says: "Water is bad for boats".
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Old 10-28-2017, 08:43 AM
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Moeller option

Assume you guys are aware of large range of Moeller tanks. They have relative simple tie downs available using an indent in tank.

I installed one about 5 years back and has been great. Just transparent enough that you can visually check fuel level.

https://www.jamestowndistributors.co...nent+Fuel+Tank
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Old 10-28-2017, 08:59 AM
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Canadian Construction Standards

The Canadians among us are probably tired of seeing references to USCG requirements and standards. The Canadian equivalent is: Transport Canada, “Small Vessel Regulations, Construction Standards for Small vessels TP1332E”.

It can be found at:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety...-521.htm#wb117
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