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Old 01-21-2011, 05:05 AM
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FWC heat exchanger dimensions

My search for a new HX unit has lead to some frustration as I sometimes have to compare apples and oranges.

Specifically, would anyone have measures of "exchange surface area" for a properly functioning HX? Ideally, I would love to have the figure for the Moyer unit- a properly dimensioned and tested HX.

By comparison, I have a reference for a 16" HX (4" diam.) with an exchange surface of 7.9 square feet.
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Old 01-21-2011, 10:28 AM
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"Math Test"

Kelly,
For reference purposes, I measured a recently acquired HX I have which appears to be almost identical to the Moyer/Indigo unit which is on my A4 at the boat. Outside dimension is 3"x15" which is considerably smaller than the HX you're considering but that shouldn't be a problem. Internally it has 60- 3/16"(.1875") i.d. tubes which are 12" long, or a surface cooling area of about 2.94 square feet, by my calculations. Hope these numbers help.
Tom
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:16 PM
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Kelly,
Mine is dinky(the HX that is)
It's not much bigger than a sports drink bottle. The wider part at the top is just the reservoir. In the photo, it's the blue thing that looks like a ....well, Heat exchanger.

It keeps the engine well cooled. I don't have dimensions But I know it's smaller than most.

I think you'll do fine with whatever you get.

Russ
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Last edited by lat 64; 01-21-2011 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:31 PM
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lat64,

I've seen that HX before..I think it is a Universal product..

Here check out this link...(the pic is copyrighted so I did not post it here..)

it should provide some dimensions. --> http://www.perfprotech.com/store/pro...118,24085.aspx
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"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4, but she does have an MMI manifold.
Sailing the boat a bit instead of working on it so much has been fun!! I am tired of messing around with other spark plugs, this summer, she's running great on good ol' stock Champion RJ8C's
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Old 01-24-2011, 02:55 AM
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Thanks for the information.

Russ- interesting comment about "any size should work". I could be barking up the wrong tree if this is true as I've been wondering if my Sendure HX is not up to the required cooling job and is at the root of my "too warm" running issues.

Here's a picture. I don't have the dimensions but it's about 2.5" in diameter and maybe a foot and a half long.
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Old 01-24-2011, 04:12 AM
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I know that any size will not work -- my custom made HX by sendure reaches capacity when the water is about 78F. Mine is about 1 1/2 - 2 feet long but closer to 4 or 5 inches in diameter and is dual pass -- the water flows from one end to the other and back again. Let me know if you want specific dimensions.

-jonathan
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Old 01-24-2011, 07:56 AM
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Jonathan,

Did you get your custom HX specifically for your application or was it on the boat when you purchased it? I guess I'm wondering if your 78°F raw water limit was discovered the hard way or did you go for a design with this maximum in mind, knowing that it was fine for your application?
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Old 01-24-2011, 08:08 AM
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Talking

Kelly - This is going to be a hard thing to quantify. I went thru the same exercise with my installation. Your exchanger is a little small. I suggest you just add another one in series, maybe an 1129-x-x series Sendure or rough equivalent. See what is available locally. Sometimes boatyards will have new ones in the parts department that have been sitting around gathering dust and you can make a deal. Hanley
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Old 01-24-2011, 08:31 AM
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Hanley- I have to agree with you but mostly for "gut feeling" reasons. Without having the exact dimensions, my HX looks smaller than the MMI unit and definitely gets very warm to the touch when I'm underway.

I'm poking around for a used HX over here ("over there" for you, like in the old song). Keeping my fingers crossed for a good deal...

By the way, if I'm correct you've sung the praises of the MMI 502 raw water pump. Other than lower maintenance, are you seeing significant increases in water flow over your previous pump? Here's my current pump: a thing of beauty, n'est-ce pas?
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Old 01-24-2011, 08:51 AM
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Kelly - From what I can see there is no difference in flow between the Oberdorfer and the MM502. The big (and it is REALLY big) difference is the bearings in the MM502 carrying the shaft while the Oberdorfer shaft rides directly on the housing material. Your Oberdorfer is quite attractive BTW. Regards, Hanley
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Old 01-24-2011, 10:19 AM
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Thank you for the information and complement. I like to go back to my "fresh after the renovation" photos...especially given the current state of corrosion just a few years later.
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhwelch View Post
I know that any size will not work -- ..
-jonathan
Jonathan is correct, I thought you were unsure the Moyer system was adequate. My bad.
It's not all about the size though. I have the luxury of having; 45 Deg.(F.) seawater, a good flow in both pumps, a proper functioning thermostat, and a clean system. My engine warms up quickly even with the cold seawater. But I can make it get too warm by restricting the flow with a ball valve that diverts to the cabin heater. This is in effect, simulating a flow problem to the HX.

If you enjoy warm seawater, then certainly go bigger in sizing a HX, but if you are having flow problems then that should be corrected too.

Some old friends will be in Paris for April. Say "hi" for me.

Russ
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Old 01-25-2011, 02:20 AM
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Heat Exchanger diagram

Quote:
Originally Posted by lat 64 View Post
Some old friends will be in Paris for April. Say "hi" for me.
Well Russ, that's your second bad. I refuse to say "hi" to your friends but will oblige with a friendly "bonjour".

Included here is a diagram I find helpful and one that shows proper installation in the case of multiple HXs. I was not aware of the "counter-flow" principle and this may well be affecting the cooling capacity of my heat exchanger.

I stand thoroughly humbled and will probably continue to do so for quite some time...

In the figure below, t=raw water and T=engine cooling liquid. I'm including reference to the origin of the diagram in order to (hopefully) avoid litigation.
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Last edited by Kelly; 01-25-2011 at 03:03 AM. Reason: added diagram / title
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Old 01-25-2011, 04:50 AM
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@Kelly,

The heat exchanger that came with the boat turned out to be about 10 years older than the engine(!) and of course it failed in some remote place as I was making my way to Florida.

Up until that point it had been cooling fine, so the easiest thing to do was to get an identical shaped one so I could reuse the mounting brackets and space it was mounted in. I rented a car and drove to the Sendure factory in Ft. Lauderdale where I happened to catch the head engineer who took the measurements of my old HX, asked me if I wanted dual pass (yes) and a threaded fitting for a pencil zinc (yes).
The measurements of the cooling cylinder (not counting end caps) are appx 14in x 3in.

It was many years later that I happened to be in the Chesapeake Bay "too early" and the water was 75+ F when I noticed my engine temperature running higher than usual the the oil pressure running a bit lower.

If you peer closely at the 2 photos I am about to attach you will see 2 hoses going into the aft cap (that is the dual flow part) and 2 more near both ends but on the bottom of the cylinder.

Eagle eyes will also notice I am using a sink-type water strainer; having someting this small has saved my bacon more than once, especially the time I was going along through a carpet of green algae(?) in the Dismal Swamp Canal.

You'll also spot a wooden block that a friend made ages ago mounted on the alternator; this is so I can pass the internal wires to an external regulator and not have a sparking issue.

The rusty spot under the back of the HX is from when I used zinc-coated plumbing fittings and one started to fail. You'll also notice a very small filler hose on the top back which goes to my overflow bottle.

-Jonathan
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Old 01-25-2011, 05:11 AM
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Hello Jonathan-

Thank you for the pictures.

Would you mind elaborating on the dual-pass vs. single-pass option? Specifically, is it that given the size of your HX and the raw water flow rate (and temperatures), a dual-pass system is needed to increase heat extraction time in the exchanger?

Also, I'm assuming your raw water is plumbed to the end cap. Is this correct? I'm looking for confirmation that the coolant circuit is plumbed to the shell portion of the HX while the raw water passes through the tubes or "cap" end (anyone can chime in here).

Can we assume the MMI HX is a dual-pass system based on the input/output barbs being placed side by side?
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Old 01-25-2011, 05:35 AM
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Hi Kelly,

Your assumption regarding the MMI HX is correct. The manufacturer does describe the HX as a dual pass system, and it doesn't matter which way the sea water is plumbed in and out of the side by side sea water hose barbs.

Don
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Old 01-25-2011, 05:40 AM
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HX sizes

Interesting thread. I have installed 2 Moyer HX's on A4's over the years and have had no reported overheating problems here on the GOM where late summer water temps are in the 90's.

I have just finished a rebuild on an A4 and am looking at the various HX's I have salvaged. The sizes range from large, taken from a 350CID V-8 to smaller like the 3" X 15". I will measure later today and report.

Tom
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Old 01-25-2011, 07:50 AM
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Hello Don-

Thank you for the confirmation. It's good to know you are still behind the curtain and pulling the levers. Kind of keeps us on the right track...
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:53 AM
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@Kelly

Yes, my salt water goes in and out at the end cap. Just before the cap at the other end is where the zinc fitting is installed, so I change that every other oil change (often there is not much zinc left).

This is a guess, but I think having a dual pass system gives you better cooling, as there is more even flow through the brass tubes. If you had a single pass system I can imagine that some of those brass tubes might carry more water than others due to pressure issues.
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:26 AM
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Jonathan-

Thanks for getting back to me. I'm not sure about uneven pressure in the tubes but in taking apart the HX during lunch, I did see quite a lot of deposit build-up on the lower half of the tubes (salty gunk).

I think a serious vinegar soaking is in order followed by pressure flushing. The HX was clean as a whistle when I splashed the boat back in late 2007 and it has seen minimal use since. I'll take some pictures in the next day or so.

As a follow up,here are the dimensions of my Sen-dure HX:
L (w/o end caps): 20.5 inches
OD : 2 inches
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